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Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

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Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#41
I've been told I have a perfect pitch (by people in music business). I learned violin since the age of 7 by ear. I went to after school classes for that and technically I was supposed to learn from notes and the fact that I would just throw them out and learn a piece by ear in no time annoyed my teachers and peers quite a bit. They would ask me to tune their instruments before concerts though. Later I learned keyboards, some other instruments and eventually acoustic guitar (finger style) the same way (I have a Taylor 414ce-R collecting dust in a closet). I wrote a few songs as well.

In my opinion based on many years of experience at the very least relative pitch is a necessary learning an instrument by ear and essential for instruments without fixed tone positions, such as violin which has no frets unlike a guitar.

I can't speak from the perspective of someone who may have no pitch, because for me the technique was the hard part, not melody, chords or finding the right notes.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#42
Let me bring in a metaphor that might help.

I grew up monolingual, and only acquired a second language in adulthood. When I was younger I would ask people what it was like to speak two languages, what was going on in their heads, what did it feel like and so on. It seemed like magic.

Then I moved to another country and slowly, over the years I picked up another language. Each individual step felt small. Nothing magical was happening each time. But sooner or later I could speak another language fluently. Somewhat disappointingly, there was no magic in my head. It just felt 'normal'.

I suspect this is what having a great ear for music feels like. You're either born with it or build it through many many years of practice. Because of this, it never seems particularly special to the holder.

(An aside: I played trumpet for 4 years in high school and still cannot tell if a song is in a major key or minor key, and cannot tune an instrument so if anyone has the secret to gaining a musical ear I'm 'all ears'.)

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#43
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It feels like being able to hear someone say something and repeat it back to them :) Fluency comes from learning theory implicitly. Implicit theory knowledge comes from spending a lot of time listening to music you want to emulate, and then painstakingly emulating it on your instrument. Your mistakes will elucidate the nature of the music. - Jazz Pianist

I completely agree with this. Learning music theory helped me play by ear because it helped me associate a feeling with a progression or chord. This made learning by trial and error much easier, since it stuck more (I tried it without much success when I was younger). - Also Jazz Pianist

For me the theory helps me understand how to execute what I hear in my head.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#45
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Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! It's pretty much the way I'm trying to learn at the moment. Tbh, I felt my learning process was a bit unstructured, but knowing that you've persevered and got to a high level of proficiency this way gives me a lot of encouragement!

I learned the same way, however I really wish I learned theory too (and am teaching myself now). The best way I can describe the limitation is that it's like knowing the shapes of the bottles for the ingredients to a recipe, but you don't know the names or the "why" of how it all works. You can't talk to other musicians about music and you can find yourself doodling the same old songs and patterns over and over. It i…

Fun fact: I am now learning theory and chord names.

I was in a band in college and I could never play along with the properly trained. "Can you play that in a C minor pentatonic scale?"

"Yeah!... So what frets are those?"

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#46
It would help tremendously to learn some music theory. I play the piano and I can play any song in any key. It's not all trial and error, there's actually a science to it all. Learn your scales. Practice, practice, practice and you'll eventually get it.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#47
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned the same way, however I really wish I learned theory too (and am teaching myself now). The best way I can describe the limitation is that it's like knowing the shapes of the bottles for the ingredients to a recipe, but you don't know the names or the "why" of how it all works. You can't talk to other musicians about music and you can find yourself doodling the same old songs and patterns over and over. It i…

Fun fact: I am now learning theory and chord names. I was in a band in college and I could never play along with the properly trained. "Can you play that in a C minor pentatonic scale?" "Yeah!... So what frets are those?"

And now days you just browse [www.fretflip.com](https://www.fretflip.com/021634424968) on your cellphone and booom you got that instantly! Or.. now days you just know that stuff by heart :-)

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#48
On a polyphonic instrument like the harmonium, "playing by ear" really refers to three separate but related skills.

One is the ability to hear and predict, Markov-chain style, the chord progressions in a song. This actually isn't very difficult, once you realize that 1) all songs make use of exactly the same handful of existing chord-to-chord transitions, just shifted depending on the root chord (key) the sheet music is written in, 2) some chord transitions are vastly more common than others, and 3) each transition has a distinct feel, which your brain soon learns to appreciate with an intuition similar to that you have for language.

Thus, it helps to re-write each piece of sheet music into C before you play it ("normalization", if you will), so you can see and hear the essence of e.g. C→G across the context of different pieces. Later, go around the circle of fifths, so you can see the patterns reappear in keys other than C. Music theory textbooks use tables of Roman numerals for this, but those only make sense to people who already have the intuition anyway. But there are good videos on this, like https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8qv5hZppyGQbe9laVKwg3w.

Playing chords by ear is a very satisfying feeling, because it gives you the illusion that you're 80% there with 20% of the effort. It also translates easily to other instruments.

Second is the ability to hear and play back melodies. This comes with practice. Trial and error, hit and miss ... until your miss rate goes down, which it will, slowly, over time, asymptotically approaching zero. As you practice your intuition for chords, however, you will soon know what certain intervals (especially 3, 4, 5) sound like, and that will often help you find the right next note. When you hit a plateau, read up on different types of scales – knowing "this part of the melody is mixolydian" will prune the search tree for you.

Being able to pick out the right note without thinking will turn the instrument into an extension of yourself, just as you sing or whistle without thinking. However, you may well be a proficient amateur harmonium player long before you can reproduce any complex melody completely error-free, so I don't know that it's something worth obsessing about.

Third is the ability to play more than just simple triads and monophonic melodies, but to add patterns and rhythms and chord inversions and "crunchy" notes (sus, dim, maj, 6, 9, 13, etc.) and improvisations on the melody. Those aren't self-contained skills, but rather a repertoire of tricks that you acquire as you play and analyze other people's music, and there are lots of textbooks and videos on them. Those don't do that much for your perceived level of "fluency", but they do make you feel "eloquent" and they're great for your ego.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#49
I can play violin by ear, meaning that if someone plays me a melody I can generally play it back note-for-note fairly quickly. I also can hear most common chord progressions. I do not have perfect pitch, so I struggle with series of random notes and note clusters.

What does it feel like? It feels the same as how you can just sing happy birthday without having to do any calculation about what note or lyric comes next. You can hear the song in your head and sing it. I also feel that the notes map into a grid and I will have songs mapped out by intervals.

If you want to become better at playing by ear, you can improve rapidly with rigorous training. This is how I like to learn. I think it's much faster than just plunking around with your instrument and rediscovering everything for yourself, but may be less fun for you. Ultimately, you should do what you enjoy and avoid burning yourself out.

I spend about 30% of my time on technical mastery of my instrument. Right and left hand technique, scales, arpeggios, chords, speed.

Another 30% is spent working on repertoire. These are songs where I already have all the notes worked out or written down. This is where you learn to polish your work to the point where it can be performed.

The remaining 40% is consists mostly of transcription and improvisation. I do some ear training as well. Transcription is very painful for most beginners, but you quickly improve at it. I cannot stress how invaluable transcription is for improving your ear. You say you "slowly work things out by trial and error". This will pay HUGE dividends if you keep it up!

For improvisation, I suggest recording a backing track playing simple chords very slowly and attempting to improvise. I try to have some guiding idea, like trying to arpeggiate over all the chords, or only move in half or whole steps but always land on a chord tone, or always land on the third of the chord. As you get better, you can speed up your backing tracks and work on more complex chord progressions. Knowing your scales and arpeggios will really help here. The more comfortable you are with the layout of your instrument, the easier improvising will be.

I'll stop with this piece of advice -- plan your practice sessions! It doesn't matter how you break them up, as long as you are consciously working on something specific. Staying organized and having a plan will ensure that you continue to improve and help combat the plateau that many amateur musicians encounter.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#50
I can play guitar by ear (within reason - it's much easier for idioms I'm familiar with, and I don't have perfect pitch, so I need a quick exploration to find the key first).

I had some guitar lessons as a teenager, covering a mix of technique, vocabulary and theory. But I was not academically schooled in music.

There are two things that help develop this skill I think, extrapolating from my own experience:

One is, when learning a piece I find it useful to hum or sing the notes I am trying to learn. i.e. play back a bit of the recording, then pause and hum it to myself while finding the notes on the instrument. It sounds trivial and obvious, but it helps build the connections and to hear the music in your head.

I think part of being able to do it involves "having the instrument in your head".

The second tip is then to follow on from the first but do it without a recording and without the instrument in your hands. Hum the notes to yourself and try to imagine where they are on the "instrument in your head". If you don't already know the key just choose an arbitrary one. This helps two things - develop the instrument in your head, also a sense of relative pitch (intervals) between the individual notes in sequence, and also between each note and the key centre.

I distinctly remember as a teenager this was something I liked to do while on my way to and from school - hearing back a guitar solo in my head and trying to play it, in my head. And then when I got home I could try it out on the instrument and see how close I was.

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