Apple deprecates Java • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#31

Post by fauigerzigerk » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 8:26 AM UTC

This could be good news for anyone who uses a Mac to work with Java. There could finally be a JDK for OS X that doesn't lag years behind official Java releases.

On the other hand, the margin between Apple not supporting something and Apple banning something is incredibly narrow. Steve Jobs doesn't seem to understand the difference between choice and fragmentation very well.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#32

Post by yakisoft » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 8:28 AM UTC

msy wrote: post #28

I wonder if putting the boot into the most straightforward cross-platform solution for desktop apps has anything to do with the proliferation of OSX Java apps with shoddy/un-maclike UX/UI or whether it's something to do with Oracle's recent moves.

I don't think Oracle is even on Apples radar, Apple is largely a consumer/creator focussed business, Oracle is purely B2B.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#33

Post by pmjordan » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 8:37 AM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #19

krelian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't own a Mac. Apple has been pretty much the sole provider, and had their very own JVM with specific look & feel customization to the UI packages. So was it their own separately developed JVM or just a bunch of additions to make the UI not suck on OS X?

I believe it is Sun's JVM with OSX-specific customizations to make the UI suck less (it still sucked, generally speaking).

The Cocoa (UI) bindings were already deprecated sometime during 10.4/Tiger if I remember correctly.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#34

Post by riffraff » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 8:41 AM UTC

yakisoft wrote: post #32

msy wrote: post #28

I wonder if putting the boot into the most straightforward cross-platform solution for desktop apps has anything to do with the proliferation of OSX Java apps with shoddy/un-maclike UX/UI or whether it's something to do with Oracle's recent moves.

I don't think Oracle is even on Apples radar, Apple is largely a consumer/creator focussed business, Oracle is purely B2B.

yet, some java developers are mac users, losing them does not seem smart

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#35

Post by riffraff » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 8:42 AM UTC

msy wrote: post #28

I wonder if putting the boot into the most straightforward cross-platform solution for desktop apps has anything to do with the proliferation of OSX Java apps with shoddy/un-maclike UX/UI or whether it's something to do with Oracle's recent moves.

is there such a proliferation? the only java app I use on the mac is cyberduck, and it is neither shoddy nor un-maclike

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#36

Post by hboon » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 8:46 AM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #35

msy wrote: post #28

I wonder if putting the boot into the most straightforward cross-platform solution for desktop apps has anything to do with the proliferation of OSX Java apps with shoddy/un-maclike UX/UI or whether it's something to do with Oracle's recent moves.

is there such a proliferation? the only java app I use on the mac is cyberduck, and it is neither shoddy nor un-maclike

Had no idea Cyberduck is written in Java. If only all Java desktop applications are like this.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#37

Post by Corrado » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 8:49 AM UTC

krelian wrote: post #14

martey wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not done Java development on OS X, but doesn't this mean that OS X 10.7 would not ship with a Java runtime? Wouldn't this have a negative effect on the ease of packaging and distributing Java programs on the platform?

Was Java that big on the Mac? Neither Windows nor most Linux distros ship with a Java runtime.

Yes, at one point Apple made a big deal about Java being a "primary" language on the OS X platform. It had proper Coca bindings, Mac like look & feel, etc. Steve hawked it in one of the early OS X keynotes as being the future of the Mac platform. An easy language for all those that were confused by Objective-C.

Several years ago Apple reversed their position on Java and have been ignoring it ever since. This is merely the last act in the Java play at Apple. Goodnight sweet prince!

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#38

Post by demallien » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 8:51 AM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #18

shimonamit wrote: post #10

Speculative, but could this be an early preventative measure to keep JRuby from challenging their up and coming MacRuby platform?

"Their" up and coming MacRuby platform? Is that a joke?

In what respect? MacRuby is a project hosted by Apple. It's lead developer is an Apple employee, and there are several other Apple employees working on the project. In what significant way is it not Apple's platform?

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#39

Post by mseebach » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 8:52 AM UTC

nickpp wrote: post #9

Wait, I thought Oracle (Java's current owner) is Apple's friend, because of the lawsuit against Google's Android. Head spinning.

For all the competition, Apple and Google have loads more in common with each other (they both make immensely useful products for end-users) than either has in common with Oracle (who sells very expensive employment-insurance policies for people who'd die laughing three times over before touching the software they purchase with a ten foot pole).

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#40

Post by jon914 » Thu, Oct 21, 2010, 8:59 AM UTC

This worries me greatly because my startup's product is based on Java, which gave us an advantage over others in our space for being able to work across Mac and Windows while maintaining a great user experience thanks to a lot of customization on our part (see profile).

While I concede that Java has lost relevance on Mac, there are outliers like ourselves who've written native looking Java software and don't have a viable route should the worst case scenario arise.

My only inside knowledge is that the Java "team" within Apple was very small, which explains why it constantly lagged behind on updates.