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Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

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Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#31

Post by ehnto »

osrec wrote: post #9
acconrad wrote: post #8

I learned the guitar playing by ear. As a kid I would just lock myself in my bedroom and play along with my CDs until my fingers were raw. It's a lot of screwing up, starting the song over, and trying again until it sounds right. I started doing this about 20 years ago so I've had quite a bit of practice, but at this point it's really a great feeling to listen to a song on YouTube and know pretty much before I pick u…

Thank you! It's pretty much the way I'm trying to learn at the moment. Tbh, I felt my learning process was a bit unstructured, but knowing that you've persevered and got to a high level of proficiency this way gives me a lot of encouragement!

I learned the same way, however I really wish I learned theory too (and am teaching myself now).

The best way I can describe the limitation is that it's like knowing the shapes of the bottles for the ingredients to a recipe, but you don't know the names or the "why" of how it all works. You can't talk to other musicians about music and you can find yourself doodling the same old songs and patterns over and over. It is harder to get out of your box I feel.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#32

Post by dyu- »

throwaway8879 wrote: post #16
osrec wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Did you have a particular moment when you just "got it", or was it a gradual build up of ability over the 10 years?

For me, it suddenly clicked after a decade or so. The same thing happened with improvisation and keeping excellent time. I felt like I was always struggling until one day whatever I heard in my head came out my fingers. It's just that the process is very gradual and takes a long time. I suppose the 10k hour rule applies here.

exactly my thoughts.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#33

Post by dyu- »

osrec wrote: post #6
dyu- wrote: post #3

It took me around 10yrs to be able to identify the notes immediately just by listening. I didn't really had to study it to learn ... it just came naturally for me. It correlates easily to the music theory that you know, which is the main foundation that you need to get acquainted with. I play a lot of instruments but bass is my main instrument.

Interesting. Did you have a particular moment when you just "got it", or was it a gradual build up of ability over the 10 years?

For me it was gradual build up. Also I forgot to mention that I never put that much time into learning music theory. I was too busy with programming (that's why we're here right? haha)

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#34

Post by kbob »

I started playing the sax in fourth grade (age 9). I took lessons and played in school band. By ninth grade, I could usually play back what I heard. When I heard a melody, I heard specific notes and intervals. I think learning to hear that way was harder than learning to subconsciously play notes.

The skill transferred to the bassoon and piano, though I don't play piano as well.

Years later, I picked up the sax again as an adult. This time, my emphasis was on jazz and improvisation. I still took lessons and played in bands occasionally. My drills were playing the same tune in all 12 keys and improvising on chord progressions in all 12 keys. The transposition came more or less easily -- less than a year of practice. When playing a drill around the circle of fifths (repeat a phrase in the keys of C, G, D, A, etc all the way around), I'd know what it should sound like and my fingers would find the notes. I wasn't always conscious of which key I was in.

When I improvised, sometimes I heard specific notes in my head and played them, and sometimes I thought about the chords/scales and let my fingers wander within those scales -- I didn't know what I was playing until I heard it. (I also didn't know about modes as much then.) I don't know that I was ever good at improvising, but I enjoyed it.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#35

Post by asplake »

"What key to press" isn't the best way to think about it. Music is full of patterns, idioms, and so on, and we practice those too. That's why beginners are taught scales and arpeggios, and to get into rock or jazz, you learn their chords, progressions, etc.

In terms of what it's like to be able to do it, I'm a competent church musician, and generally I prefer to pick up songs from recordings than from sheet music – I can generally listen 2 or 3 times and then sit down at the piano and do a decent enough rendition.

When I'm very familiar with a song, I quite like to rearrange, reharmonise, etc. This has required both study and deliberate practice – I look for opportunities to use particular reharmonisation tricks, for example.

Start with stuff you like, and play along to recordings. Choose a level of difficulty that stretches you a little, and keep practising until it both sounds and feels good. Have fun!

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#36

Post by adrianmonk »

What does it feel like? A lot like hearing a song on the radio and singing along with it. Most people can relate to that, even if some are better than others.

It feels very natural with your voice because you've been making sounds with your vocal cords for your whole life, so it is second nature. I think the main reason a musical instrument feels less natural isn't that it's a unique and different category of thinking. It's just that you have way less practice.

If you can work things out slowly and you have any amount of intuitive feel for it, I'd say you probably just need more practice. Though ear training ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ear_training ) can be really helpful. You can get software to drill you on intervals. And some people find it helpful to remember the sound of intervals by famous songs they occur in ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_recognition#Reference... ).

For me, it has been a gradual process. At first it was nearly all trial and error. Then I could pick out 1 note in a lot fewer tries than random chance. Then I could play little segments of melodies once I had figured out the keys. Then I could play the whole melody in near real time. Now finally after gradually getting more comfortable over the years, I can guess chord progressions reasonably well. All these things came months or years apart depending on how big of a jump it was and how much I practiced.

Incidentally, I am an amateur pianist, and I have virtually no natural talent. When I started, I could not play anything at all by ear. If I can do it, anybody can.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#37

Post by kamaal »

I can play harmonica(chromatic), by the ear. I play mostly Hindi Bollywood Music.

To be frank before I 'cracked it' it largely felt like magic. After I cracked it, it largely felt like the time I learned to ride a bicycle without training wheels. It felt magical.

But on a whole lot, not having to look at a piece of paper, sight read and then play is a huge convenience. You also begin to thing in terms of sound, than sight. Which is basically the whole point of music. I think the first person who needs to enjoy your music is you. If you have to look at piece of paper to play a song, you sort of get too busy to enjoy it yourself.

Harmonica is a very enjoyable instrument, its portable, you can carry it anywhere, and play it at your convenience. You can play a wide variety of genres on it. Other big part of playing the harmonica is its in your mouth, so you can't exactly see the keys, like you see on the Piano or the Guitar. I've seen many people think of it largely as magic.

Music is the closest to Magic, I've gotten after code. To manipulate emotions, purely by thinking in terms of thoughts and sounds is just Magical. Not just to those listening, but to you yourself. You feel yourself creating art in real time.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#38

Post by anotheryou »

i can only speak for melody, but with harmonic instruments it will be similar.

limit yourself to a few tones and improvise. that will get you to the core of that feeling quickly.

start with 3 notes of a cord, see what you can do with it, maybe try a 4th. than learn a scale you like and improvise within that.

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#39

Post by cyberjunkie »

Really cool to hear the insights here. I've always wanted to learn things by myself, and so I picked up the guitar ages ago. I wish I spent a lot more time on it.

I can read guitar tablature from Ultimate-guitar.com and once upon a time (OLGA). I'm afraid I'm very robotic because I need to see where I'm going to play it. And because of that, there's no melody, and I can't remember chords and notes or know what scales and notes to play when. I think I have reasonable finger motion, even to the point where I don't need to look at the fretboard at all.

Like I said, amazing to hear from the experts. I envy!

Re: Ask HN: What does it feel like to master playing an instrument by ear?

#40

Post by cybervegan »

After about 5 or 6 years of abusing an electric guitar, learning from tab, you tube tutorials, general messing round etc. what it feels like to me is that now can guess from a note I hear, roughly where that will appear on the fretboard, and how it was struck - picked, finger, palm muting, and so on. I can listen to a riff and if I can get the first note or chord, I can work from there as I know a bit about what "next" note or chord will or won't work. You start out with a very generalised idea of where the high and low notes are, but it takes time before you internalise that, and then later you begin to be able to relate the sound of another musician playing to how you might play the same. I'm still crap, though.
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