Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can you say it's the least risky way to release a commercial product when Apple has the ability to reject your product at will?
My girlfriend has the ability to slit my throat at night without me having any way to resist, but I still think being around her is less risky than, say, walking across the freeway. A hopeless situation that is extremely unlikely to occur is less of a risk than a slightly-less-bad situation that is very likely. In practice, it seems like the difficulty of getting eyeballs and converting them into sales is generally m…
Apple brings App Store to Mac OS X
211–220 of 229 posts
Re: Apple brings App Store to Mac OS X
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Scarier idea: Charging, or restricting access to Xcode only for those who have paid the developers subscription.
Scarier idea: Apple charging $400,000 for special developer-only hardware. I mean, if we are going to be making up unlikely scenarios out of whole cloth, why stop at half-measures?
Re: Apple brings App Store to Mac OS X
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not so excited about this. Am I the only one who thinks this is Apple's first step in exerting more control over developers and users on the OS X platform like they do on iOS? EDIT: to all the replies about how you still have a choice of distribution on OS X: yes, you do right now, but who knows how long that will last? As I said, this might be the first step in locking down the platform. I don't believe this wil…
> I'm not so excited about this... this might be the first step in locking down the platform. Of course you're not excited about this. You're a brilliant nerd who founded a startup that invented a new programming language . This isn't for you. Or for me. Getting to be Nerd Jesus every time a computer runs into trouble is gratifying. We get to be important. We get to trick out our gear to do all kinds of goofy, custom…
> Of course you're not excited about this. You're a brilliant nerd who
> founded a startup that invented a new programming language. This isn't for
> you. Or for me.
The AppStore is not for "you or for me," but his fear is not that Apple is
creating an AppStore for OS X. His fear is what this says about Apple's future
strategy for the Mac OS X platform. > Getting to be Nerd Jesus every time a computer runs into trouble is
> gratifying. We get to be important. We get to trick out our gear to do all
> kinds of goofy, custom stuff. We get to build things that are neat.
You're conflating a lot of things here. You're claiming that all 'nerds' like
the feeling of superiority they get when they solve computer problems for other
'non-nerds.' Are you really attempting to apply this generalization to all
technical people?Secondly, what does 'tricking out your gear to do all kinds of goofy, custom stuff' have to do with being 'Nerd Jesus?' Would you call car-modders 'Auto Jesus' if they were to complain that an car company made it harder to perform 3rd party modifications to their products?
How does building neat things and 'tricking out your gear' make you 'Nerd Jesus' or make it so that you 'get to be important?'
> Serving our needs is certainly important. It's important, also, to
> understand that we are the minority. Everyone else just wants a tool that
> works. The majority of human beings on earth find computers to be
> mystifying, frustrating, even scary things. Absent Nerd Jesus, the computer
> just seems to have a mind of its own. It has its own agenda and interacting
> with it is an exercise in guesswork and black magic.
You're setting up a false dichotomy here. There isn't some 'line' that divides
all people between extreme technical competance and 'caveman-level' technical
competance. Also remember that 51% is a majority, and that a 51/49 split is a
hell of a lot different than a 95/5 split (i.e. tossing out 'majority' and
'minority' is meaningless). > What the iPad, and the iPhone before it, has taught us is simple: people
> want a computer they understand. They want technology, but optimizing for
> Nerd Jesus has given them shit technology that doesn't respect them, so
> they're used to being defensive around it.
Do you really believe that the majority of systems out there are 'optimized'
for your 'Nerd Jesus' rather than 'Nerd Jesus' just happening to understand the
system that already exist? > This is all a long way of saying that I agree with you – this could be a
> first step in "locking down the platform" for you and me. And streamlining
> it so it's actually useful for everyone else who doesn't fetishize the
> Terminal, kernel extensions or compilers.
"locking down the system" != "steamlining the system"To frame this discussion a little differently, do you believe that instituting a police state would result in a more stream-lined society?
Things like kernel extensions and compilers aren't "going away." Apple is just trying their best to obfuscate them, and the fears in technical groups is that Apple wants to make it impossible to access them. Are you really of the mind that it is impossible to have a stream-lined experience on a technical device if the possibility of gaining access to a compiler exists?
Most of people's annoyance with iOS is not that it's streamlined. It's that Apple wants to be the gatekeeper, who gets to tell you what kind of software you can run on your device. There are plenty of types of software that are outside of the realm of uber technical people that Apple will not allow on the device that would enhance the lives of many.
> I think there will always be a place for Nerd Jesus to do his thing. But
> instead of being the focus of the market, we're finally going to focus on
> the vast majority of what most people actually care about doing.
Focusing on the 'majority' of people is different than actively trying to
thwart 'Nerd Jesus.' > We'll see what it costs us from a nerd perspective. I suspect it's less
> than we think – aside from the high of our indispensability as
> troubleshooters, of course.
Now that you're down off our high-hor^w^wsoapbox, the question that I pose to
you is this: Do you seriously believe that the issue that people take with the
possible changes that Apple might make to the Mac OS X platform is 100% to do
with technical people losing their ability to assert superiority over the
'mendecants' through troubleshooting their computer problems?To all that upvoted this: Really HN? Really? Anyone that doesn't want a locked-down system is just some 'stupid nerd' that thinks he's going to lose his 'in' with pretty girls because they won't need their computers fixed? That seems to be the crux of this argument.
Re: Apple brings App Store to Mac OS X
#214As an Australian indie game dev, this presents an interesting situation. To sell games in Australia, you are legally required submit your game to the Office of Film and Literature Classification so that its content can be rated. This can cost upwards of $1000 per game, which isn't chump change for indie devs. For us, the iPhone App Store has been somewhat of a loophole, as games sold on the App Store somehow manage t…
Re: Apple brings App Store to Mac OS X
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not so excited about this. Am I the only one who thinks this is Apple's first step in exerting more control over developers and users on the OS X platform like they do on iOS? EDIT: to all the replies about how you still have a choice of distribution on OS X: yes, you do right now, but who knows how long that will last? As I said, this might be the first step in locking down the platform. I don't believe this wil…
> I'm not so excited about this... this might be the first step in locking down the platform. Of course you're not excited about this. You're a brilliant nerd who founded a startup that invented a new programming language . This isn't for you. Or for me. Getting to be Nerd Jesus every time a computer runs into trouble is gratifying. We get to be important. We get to trick out our gear to do all kinds of goofy, custom…
Re: Apple brings App Store to Mac OS X
#216While I share tlrobinson's concern about the mac getting locked down (and therefore dumbed down) like iOS, I think at least it is now clear that we have several years in front of us, at least, where Apple won't try that.
A Mac app I worked on a couple years back got "Staff Pick" on Apple's old, lame, "Get Mac OS X Software" page that just linked to our site. Lame as that page was, we saw a considerable sales bump. But it was nothing like the gargantuan effect we've seen from getting featured on the iOS app store.
The exposure from getting featured is major, but even if it doesn't happen, the fact that Apple handles billing and provides the one-step, one-click process is a huge win for the developer.
I expect that with an Apple-backed Mac app store, if you have Mac apps that are at all successful in the market now, you're going to see a massive increase in unit sales.
I think that would be the case even if the Mac installed base was magically frozen at this point in time. (And that definitely _isn't_ the case.)
Re: Apple brings App Store to Mac OS X
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
How can you say it's the least risky way to release a commercial product when Apple has the ability to reject your product at will?
Because you don't have to accept credit cards or enforce licenses? It is the least resistant path from someone's bank account to your bank account. The customer doesn't even take their credit card out of their wallet. Multiply that by the chance that they will accept your app (high), and you have good expected returns. As much as I want to sell offline web apps to any platform, that store doesn't yet exist.
Re: Apple brings App Store to Mac OS X
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to look further than iOS to see that yes, it is a problem. Charging developers a yearly fee aside, excluding apps that Apple is not comfortable with due to competitive reasons is a HUGE problem. Also, a lot of us who develop on OS X actually use the unix tool chain. Something like homebrew or fink just won't fit into the app store framework. Edit: that said, I do see the positive aspects of it. So long…
Just a note. If you're a serious Windows developer, you're probably paying the few hundred bucks a year for the basic MSDN software subscription.
Many Mac developers initially learnt by making small apps and making them available to everyone. I bet the iPhone App Store would have a lot less crap on it if new developers were able to learn iPhone development without having to pay a subscription and put their first apps on the App Store (and no, ad hoc does not count).
Re: Apple brings App Store to Mac OS X
#219There seems like there's one serious flaw in this idea. What's to prevent people from inserting malware into their applications? Unlike the iPhone, OSX isn't sandboxed. And there's no way Apple's approval process can possibly check for possible badness hiding in the compiled code. Unless, of course, they are building a special sandbox for these OSX apps as well. Which means that you'll have to write apps specifically…
Revoke the developer's code signing keys Freeze the developer's payments Alert the authorities about the developer Revoke the app from the app store Push an "upgrade" notification to every registered user to remove the application Or even more drastic, engage the application kill switch
I'm really not sure how you think a fully managed software platform will have more malware problems than the run-arbitrary-code-off-the-internet system we have now. It seems like it's actually a killer solution to the problem.
Re: Apple brings App Store to Mac OS X
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh, please, please tell me Adobe will work with the OS X app store. Adobe's updater needs terminated with prejudice.
If it ever does, it's only going to be the updater. Adobe would never sell anything through that Mac App Store if it means giving a 30% cut to Apple.
I doubt it's less then 30% and I'd wager that Adobe still ships a lot of software in boxes.