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The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

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Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#41

Post by tecleandor »

jake-low wrote: post #19
WJW wrote: post #17

I remember my very first program, from the book "Programmeren voor kinderen" ("Programming for kids" in Dutch) repeat 4 forward 100 right 90 It drew a square on the screen and my mind was blown. I haven't recovered yet :)

If you don't mind me asking, did the book do any explaining of why the magic computer words were in a foreign language (English)? Had you been exposed to much English already when you picked up the book? As a native English speaker I feel fairly ignorant of how programming is taught in other (human) languages. I recall a quote [1] by Eric S. Raymond commenting (or perhaps speculating?) that Linus commented his kernel…

When I played with logo in the eighties, all the commands where translated to Spanish, so it would be something like (and I'm going by memory) :

  repite 4:
    avanza 50
    giraderecha 90

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#43

Post by DonHopkins »

derefr wrote: post #40
DonHopkins wrote: post #4

This is wonderful! My first paid programming job was writing a Logo Adventure program for C64 Terrapin Logo. They wanted a simple non-graphical game that showed off Logo's list processing capabilities, and I just used Logo's top level interpreter as the parser! That saved a lot of coding, but it did let you cheat (aka "learn to understand and program and debug Logo"). https://medium.com/@donhopkins/logo-adventure-for…

Diving into that MACLISP file, I found this variable and explanatory comment: > SYNSTAX ... A STACK OF SYNTAX PROPERTIES If there were a "stupid-clever variable names" hall of fame, that one would certainly make the cut.

It also mentions BIBOP LISP: BIg Bag Of Pages

    (OR (BOUNDP 'BIBOP) (SETQ BIBOP ITS)) 

    ;;THE TURTLE PACKAGE IS GOING TO EAT LOTS OF FLONUM SPACE, SO IN BIBOP LISP, ASSURE
    ;;THAT ENOUGH WILL BE AVAILABLE.

    (AND (MEMQ 'BIBOP (STATUS FEATURES))
         (ALLOC '(FLONUM (2000. 4000. NIL) FLPDL 2000.)))
https://www.saildart.org/BIBOP.RPG[UP,DOC]4

BIBOP is the dynamically expandable version of MACLISP, the SAIL standard MACLISP. Essentially, the main advantage of BIBOP is that whenever one of the expandable spaces runs out of space, BIBOP requests a larger core allocation from the monitor and the delinquent space grows in the allocated memory.

December 1973; updated March 1974

The (in)famous "Bibop" (pronounced "bee-bop") LISP scheme has been available for some time now and seems to be more or less reliable. Bibop means "BIg Bag Of Pages", a reference to the method of memory management used to take advantage of the memory paging features of ITS. The average LISP user should not be greatly affected in converting to this new LISP (which very eventually will become the standard LISP, say in a few months).

https://ml.cddddr.org/lispnews/lispnews-19740213.html

WEDNESDAY FEB 13,1974 FM+7D.3H.28M.38S. LISP 746 - GLS -

AS OF VERSION 746, LISP SYSTEMS OF THE SAME VERSION WILL SHARE PAGES AMONG THEMSELVES; I.E. A LISP, MACSYMA, AND CONNIVER CAN ALL SHARE PAGES COMMON TO THE LISP SYSTEM. BIBOP LISP HAS BEEN GREATLY RESTRUCTURED; I WILL RE-EDIT THE BIBOP DOCUMENT AS SOON AS I CAN (SAY WITHIN THE NEXT WEEK). -- GLS

https://github.com/PDP-10/its/search?q=BIBOP&unscoped_q=BIBO...

There's nothing easier on the eyes than some good old fashioned PDP-10 Midas assembler MacLisp source code!

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#44

Post by apricot »

acomjean wrote: post #8
MicahKV wrote: post #7

Wow, what a blast from the past. My introduction to programming was on an old Apple II with BASIC and LOGO. I was in the 6th grade at the time, and never did anything as complex as looping to draw spirals - I basically used LOGO like an etch-a-sketch.

Me too. I really liked Logo. I worked as "child volunteer" at and art museums "festival of the future" making logo spirographs for interested visitors. It was the early 80s and the apple ][+ 's 7 colors (2 white and 2 black..) was pretty bad compared till today, but we didn't care because not much was better. Basic was built in so I ended up going back to that. I learned logo, pascal and basic, but being built in and…

Hey! Hey! Stop bad-mouthing the Apple II's graphics capabilities. I'll have you know the computer has not 7 but 8 high-resolution colors (of which two are white and two are black, but who cares about being a little wasteful when you have so many colors to choose from?).

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#45

Post by bradfitz »

To save others time who want to actually use this,

Here's the disk image: https://github.com/pneubauer/ptp2bin/raw/master/LOGO.dsk

Here's a web-based emulator to run said disk image: https://www.scullinsteel.com/apple2/

Here's the manual: https://archive.org/details/Apple_Logo_II_Reference_Manual/p...

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#47

Post by ta3435353444 »

MicahKV wrote: post #7

Wow, what a blast from the past. My introduction to programming was on an old Apple II with BASIC and LOGO. I was in the 6th grade at the time, and never did anything as complex as looping to draw spirals - I basically used LOGO like an etch-a-sketch.

Brings back old memories of the Beagle Bros and Winfall (Windfall?) magazines and things.

I recall seeing LOGO and turtles in some of the magazines but never got the chance to try em out. Back then I used to try and just type out snippets of what in hindsight was just pseudo-code from all sorts of places hoping it worked, then attempted to enter all the machine code for an assembler that came in a big red binder (didn't work, despite checksums, but you also had to write the 'editor' so I stuffed that up I suspect).

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#48

Post by MisterOctober »

Hot diggity dog! Like lots of folks, LOGO on the Apple II was my first exposure to computer -- thanks to one Mr. Milligan in Westbrook, ME -- some of the other kids in my class did some pretty amazing graphics with it -- the one that is particularly clear in my mind was a well-proportioned and '3D-type' rendering of the brandmark of the band 'Foreigner' -- I had no idea at the time how to even pronounce that word, but the fact he'd done it with the turtle sure made an impression on me

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#49

Post by glandium »

jake-low wrote: post #19
WJW wrote: post #17

I remember my very first program, from the book "Programmeren voor kinderen" ("Programming for kids" in Dutch) repeat 4 forward 100 right 90 It drew a square on the screen and my mind was blown. I haven't recovered yet :)

If you don't mind me asking, did the book do any explaining of why the magic computer words were in a foreign language (English)? Had you been exposed to much English already when you picked up the book? As a native English speaker I feel fairly ignorant of how programming is taught in other (human) languages. I recall a quote [1] by Eric S. Raymond commenting (or perhaps speculating?) that Linus commented his kernel…

In France, in the 80s, schools had Thomson MO5 machines that came with a french version of logo, with commands in french.

  repete 4 [ avance 100 tournedroite 90 ]
or with abbreviated commands:

  repete 4 [ av 100 td 90 ]

Re: The Apple II Source Code for the LOGO Language Found

#50

Post by kristianp »

MicahKV wrote: post #7

Wow, what a blast from the past. My introduction to programming was on an old Apple II with BASIC and LOGO. I was in the 6th grade at the time, and never did anything as complex as looping to draw spirals - I basically used LOGO like an etch-a-sketch.

I did the same in grade 7 on an Apple that was shared between two classrooms, and almost never used. I probably used it for an hour that year doing different diagrams in LOGO. Never used any of the conditionals or list processing features of the language though. For someone into computers at that age who had tinkered with BASIC, it was unforgettable.
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