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IQ Matters Less Than You Think

nautil.us

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Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#321

Post by bachbach »

nickysielicki wrote: post #144
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and, from what I've read, would be higher cause the tests have changed. That doesn't sound right - the Flynn effect causes IQ tests to get harder over time. Also, I believe IQ reliably deteriorates with age.

The Flynn effect is misunderstood to be some sort of general humanist truth (because psychology classes generally present it as such), but the existence of a reversal in the Flynn effect in recent years may indicate that it was just a circumstance of the 20th century and not something that we can assume will continue forever. Flynn effect and its reversal are both environmentally caused (2018) https://sci-hub.tw/http…

People are definitely reluctant to retract that bit of gospel and it's not a good look. IIRC Flynn himself was circumspect and the memory is uncertain but I thought he pointed to the recent reversal too.

This sort of collective amnesia happens often if you look out for it and this makes me suspicious of other conventional wisdom I see peddled here and on Reddit. Is it probably true because a lot of people think so or is it true because it chimed with a story. The mind warping powers of politics are well known but maybe the conceit every person shares is that we feel there ought to be a nice coherent story like a box to put things into - meanwhile Reality/Nature/God gives zero fucks about all that.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#322

Post by titanomachy »

zimbatm wrote: post #54
avryhof wrote: post #31

Anyone who knows that their D&D Character with a 20 INT isn't invincible. You have to have a combination of scores in all of the attributes to succeed. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't apply this to real life. That being said, I often find that I over-think tasks, and end up never completing them because I try to make them perfect, and find out at some point that I can't. What's more important than "perfect" is "…

It's possible to play a 20 INT character if the rest of the cast is adjusted accordingly. I have a theory that a lot of highly successful people have either a partner or a team that is willing to do the grunt work. They basically have/created a surrounding that allows them to focus on what they do best. The media will picture how that person is so smart and great, but without the proper environment they wouldn't be a…

The brilliant mathematician Erdos was famously incompetent at the basic requirements of life. There are many exasperated stories from the colleagues who hosted him throughout the years, but it was worth it for the insights he could provide on their work.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#323

Post by extragood »

phaus wrote: post #270
JamesBarney wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there would be too much disagreement if I said von neuman was one of the smartest 10 guys to live in the last century. But he seemed to relate to people just fine.

>I don't think there would be too much disagreement if I said von neuman was one of the smartest 10 guys to live in the last century. Obviously there won't be much disagreement on a platform dominated by computer scientists. If you went to forums for other fields they would also pick their favorites and see no reason to disagree that they are not only the best and brightest in the field, but also the best and brighte…

He's huge in computer science, legendary in mathematics, and contributed significantly to nuclear physics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann

He should make top 10 for anyone in math or science at least.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#324

Post by extragood »

JamesBarney wrote: post #256
owens99 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly, many findings show there is not. Malcolm Gladwell explains this well in his book Outliers. https://www.honorsociety.org/articles/trouble-geniuses-malco... “Gladwell cites studies done by Arthur Jensen that indicate the IQ level needed to successfully attend and graduate from undergraduate college is 115, after which Jensen believe IQ becomes relatively unimportant. For comparison, Albert Einstein, a wel…

I don't think there would be too much disagreement if I said von neuman was one of the smartest 10 guys to live in the last century. But he seemed to relate to people just fine.

> Teller also said "von Neumann would carry on a conversation with my 3-year-old son, and the two of them would talk as equals, and I sometimes wondered if he used the same principle when he talked to the rest of us." [1]

Teller is best known as "the father of the hydrogen bomb".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#Cognitive_abi...

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#325

Post by extragood »

ABCLAW wrote: post #317
JamesBarney wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there would be too much disagreement if I said von neuman was one of the smartest 10 guys to live in the last century. But he seemed to relate to people just fine.

I don't think we're at the point of having a strict definition of 'smart' let alone a system for ranking by it.

If multiple Nobel Laureates say things like

"I have sometimes wondered whether a brain like von Neumann's does not indicate a species superior to that of man"

that's a pretty good indicator that the man was beyond brilliant and I think it's fair to say that they have the better authority than any of us here to make that classification.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#Cognitive_abi...

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#326

Post by debacle »

annabellish wrote: post #320
debacle wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IQ is highly predictive of future outcomes. Where are you getting you data from?

IQ is highly predictive of the outcomes of future IQ tests, and to a degree academic performance (though much of academic measurement is based on similar theories, so this is unsurprising) There's much less corellation when you consider "future success" in terms of things like job performance, financial success, happiness, et cetera. IQ is obviously measuring something, because IQ tests are quite reliable, but the th…

> whatever effect high IQ may or may not have on future success is easily lost in other, more significant, factors.

IQ correlates with income more than any other factor. When you take away the correlation between socioeconomic situation and IQ (which admittedly there is), it correlates even more.

High IQ people are not automatically successful in the same way that tall people are not automatically basketball players.

You're making a lot of claims contrary to generally accepted research. It's invaluable, and not in the good way.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#327

Post by extragood »

astura wrote: post #169
wufufufu wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still plenty of fields where you can start late in life and not come from wealth but still be the best in the world. It's only the most popular and rewarding fields that require a life optimized to be the best to actually be the best.

>There are still plenty of fields where you can start late in life and not come from wealth but still be the best in the world. Such as?

Not exactly what you were looking for likely, but Tim Ferriss (author of the 4 hour work week) became the national champion in Sanshou kickboxing, with almost no experience. He exploited loopholes that other competitors hadn't considered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Ferriss#personal_life

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#328

Post by toasterlovin »

danans wrote: post #319
toasterlovin wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to engage in some really convoluted thinking to have something like IQ, which significantly predicts a whole bunch of important life outcomes, and somehow convince yourself that it doesn't have sweeping implications at the individual and societal level. It would be like convincing yourself that height had nothing to do with success in basketball. Surely it's not the only important factor, but it makes a huge…

Why are you so sure that IQ isn't just a useful fiction that masks a large number of underlying factors that we don't fully understand? Why are you so sure that it is the best predictor of success in these fields. Perhaps other traits are equal or better predictors of success in a particular field, like tenaciousness, or conscientiousness, and perhaps IQ doesn't matter as much if one of those aren't present. Perhaps…

> Why are you so sure that IQ isn't just a useful fiction that masks a large number of underlying factors that we don't fully understand? Why are you so sure that it is the best predictor of success in these fields. Perhaps other traits are equal or better predictors of success in a particular field, like tenaciousness, or conscientiousness, and perhaps IQ doesn't matter as much if one of those aren't present.

Because the study of human intelligence is a well established scientific discipline with a lot of well-regarded research that replicates and provides explanations of real world phenomena. And it all points to there being this (not yet fully understood) thing called g that is the strongest known predictor of tons of things related to life outcomes.

Here's a blog post by Razib Kahn about an episode of his podcast, The Insight, with guest Stuart Ritchie, a researcher in human intelligence. The podcast episode is a good start.

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/04/11/the-insight-episod...

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#329

Post by JamesBarney »

extragood wrote: post #325
ABCLAW wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we're at the point of having a strict definition of 'smart' let alone a system for ranking by it.

If multiple Nobel Laureates say things like "I have sometimes wondered whether a brain like von Neumann's does not indicate a species superior to that of man" that's a pretty good indicator that the man was beyond brilliant and I think it's fair to say that they have the better authority than any of us here to make that classification. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann#Cognitive_abi...

Or George Pólya's quote "Johnny was the only student I was ever afraid of. If in the course of a lecture I stated an unsolved problem, the chances were he'd come to me at the end of the lecture with the complete solution scribbled on a slip of paper."

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#330

Post by opportune »

cm2187 wrote: post #95
toasterlovin wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there's also probably a big difference between the top 0.01% percent and the top 1%. The difference between the top 1% and top 2% isn't very important for most types of talent. Being in one of those categories for athletic talent, for instance, wouldn't get you into a professional sports league of any kind.

True but you are assuming the IQ test is inifinitely precise which I doubt it is. It is only a measure of intelligence.

Yes, in fact, because it's generally calibrated to the whole human population and is defined on an assumed bell curve, the differences in scores in the outliers are somewhat meaningless
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