Mexico does not seem very friendly to freedom of expression:
'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images
11–20 of 37 posts
Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images
#12Is there a defining feature of this (or other) cyber bullying laws that make them antithetical to freedom of expression and the tools of oppressive regimes, rather than laws which promote more civil and effective discourse in the public sphere? I want to say trolling is somewhat like obscenity—in that you know it when you see it—but that is a deeply unsatisfying response when so much discourse online is so polarized.…
There's no right to "more civil and effective discourse in the public sphere" and while I'm not an apologist for assholes, the freedom to offend is essential in terms of those in power responding to the populace at large.
Yes, some individual might be bullied, and if they want to constrain it to "those not serving in public office, management in a government position, or celebrity status" I might be willing to consider it. But that would be way more tight in wording than any legislature is likely to introduce. In the end it's another law to control mindshare.
With liberty and freedom comes things you may not like, but liberty is far more important than protecting people who don't know how to handle getting their feelings hurt.
Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
> in that you know it when you see it I would contend that one takeaway from companies like Facebook is that this phrase doesn't actually hold up all that well on a global Internet. Facebook originally classified breast-feeding as explicit. At the time there was actual controversy about whether or not it fit into that category (public perception now is mostly that it didn't). Facebook's shift from "no pornography" to…
I think the problem there is that "you know it when you see it" scales poorly. Humans are (usually) reasonably good at handling "you know it when you see it" heuristics, even if there is disagreement on edge cases. But "you know it when you see it" is difficult to implement algorithmically, and handling content at the scale of Facebook requires that you have algorithmic processes in place to automatically handle most…
I think the problem there is that different communities have completely different standards for what pornography (or any other category) is, but Facebook is hoping that they'll all use the same Facebook. Scaling any one group's definition of pornography to the rest of the world won't work even if the technical aspects of scaling go perfectly. You have two (...billion) people who all "know it when they see it", but consistently make different judgements when shown the same content.
Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images
#14not surprising considering the leanings of the new
administration. AMLO is more of a socialist than populist.
Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images
#15Is there a defining feature of this (or other) cyber bullying laws that make them antithetical to freedom of expression and the tools of oppressive regimes, rather than laws which promote more civil and effective discourse in the public sphere? I want to say trolling is somewhat like obscenity—in that you know it when you see it—but that is a deeply unsatisfying response when so much discourse online is so polarized.…
> in that you know it when you see it I would contend that one takeaway from companies like Facebook is that this phrase doesn't actually hold up all that well on a global Internet. Facebook originally classified breast-feeding as explicit. At the time there was actual controversy about whether or not it fit into that category (public perception now is mostly that it didn't). Facebook's shift from "no pornography" to…
The problem with "you know it when you see it", even in tight-knit communities, is that it's used to shut down discussion: If you know it when you see it, then it's obvious, and if you're trying to argue the point, well, only a troll argues the obvious, innit? Nobody could disagree in good faith, so the only conclusion is that you're trying to make trouble and should be shut down.
It's logically indefensible, in that there isn't enough to it to make a logical case to defend it, which means the people proposing ideas like these must believe that either their ideas are so widely shared that nobody would ever try to attack it, or that they'll be able to destroy anyone who does attack it through means other than calm, logical argumentation. That second possibility frightens me.
Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images
#16Well, it sounds like it has no chance of passing because both the outgoing and incoming mayor have pledged to veto it. Unless I missed something.
Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images
#17not surprising considering the leanings of the new administration. AMLO is more of a socialist than populist.
your assesment is pretty imprecise.
AMLO has got nothing to do with this, he isn't even in office yet (though it kinda seems like he already is).
this is really just a proposed law from a state legislature.
Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images
#18It used to be heresy to speak against the church.
Apparently now wrong think against leftist dogma is the new heresy.
Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images
#19"There were 25,339 homicides in Mexico [in 2017], a 23% jump from 2016 and the highest number since at least 1997, the year the government began tracking the data." (CNN)
Good to see that the Mexican government is focusing on what's important.
Re: 'Anti-meme law' could see Mexicans jailed for posting insulting images
#20Is there a defining feature of this (or other) cyber bullying laws that make them antithetical to freedom of expression and the tools of oppressive regimes, rather than laws which promote more civil and effective discourse in the public sphere? I want to say trolling is somewhat like obscenity—in that you know it when you see it—but that is a deeply unsatisfying response when so much discourse online is so polarized.…
There's no right to "more civil and effective discourse in the public sphere" and while I'm not an apologist for assholes, the freedom to offend is essential in terms of those in power responding to the populace at large. Yes, some individual might be bullied, and if they want to constrain it to "those not serving in public office, management in a government position, or celebrity status" I might be willing to consid…
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