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The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

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Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#551
post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

These are such detailed denials that it's hard to believe the companies are lying.

hard to believe the companies are knowingly lying.

If you're working with the feds on a national security incident, and the PR department comes round because some reporters were asking about it, the correct answer is "I don't know what you're talking about."

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#552
post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All employee actions are company actions. You partnered with a company that can’t control what it’s employees do? No internal audits to make sure their reputation wasn’t being tarnished by a few employees?! Your loss.

I understand the indignation etc etc. And the suggestion to not use these kind of companies anymore. And that sounds really reasonable, until you realize that pretty much all contract manufacturers in the Far East will source cheaper or off-spec components than those on the BOM if they can get away with it. One of my friends supplied small widgets for a well known consumer electronics maker. He routinely gets widgets…

How much do you think you would have to pay them to make it worth their while to not use cheap components (so as not to risk losing you as a customer)? It’s amazing how people never consider using economics.

Edit: But let’s not get away from the matter at hand. The issue wasn’t cheap components, it was full-on credit skimmers installed in yor hardware (IIRC). Should be easier to incentivize the conpany into halting those before they get shipped to you, no?

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#553
post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, why are we still outsourcing chip manufacturing to other countries? Sure it's cheaper, but we sacrifice a lot to have a society of corporate slaves build our tech. Security, core domain knowledge, capability, corporate secrets, patent rewards and enforcement, etc... All of it you throw away the minute you ship your manufacturing out of the country. I've seen enough board printing machines out there to star…

>Seriously, why are we still outsourcing chip manufacturing to other countries? I actually agree it might be better for the Americans to manufacture things in America - especially things used in critical government systems. But this seems like a human problem - if all the factories were moved to America, couldn't those factory managers etc also be bribed? American manufacturing in the 60s was rife with unions w/ ties…

Business culture is different in the US and China. If you tamper a chip in China and go unnoticed you are considered smart & the winner. If you do so here you'll be getting a more negative reaction.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The day I figured out to measure the angular momentums and calculated the feasibility I was walking around the office proud like a peacock.

The fact that you keep referring to moment of inertia as "angular momentums" make me doubt that your story is true.

English isn't my native language. Of course you are correct it is called moment of inertia.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#555
post #74

I have worked in card payment industry. We would be getting products from China with added boards to beam credit card information. This wasn't state-sponsored attack. Devices were modified while on production line (most likely by bribed employees) as once they were closed they would have anti-tampering mechanism activated so that later it would not be possible to open the device without setting the tamper flag. Once…

Wait a minute... So your company has a Chinese equipment supplier, finds out that the supplier is tampering with your purchased equipment, and your solution is to add criteria to the incoming inspection? No wonder China keeps screwing with you guys. You aren't supposed to eat that cost! Write a PO with tons of fine print that says "We will disassembly units at random for compliance inspection. Non compliant products…

@zelon88 - You are a true business mind. Silicon Valley is full of pussies and you are the exception.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#556
post #74

I have worked in card payment industry. We would be getting products from China with added boards to beam credit card information. This wasn't state-sponsored attack. Devices were modified while on production line (most likely by bribed employees) as once they were closed they would have anti-tampering mechanism activated so that later it would not be possible to open the device without setting the tamper flag. Once…

I do not for one minute believe, that china, whose production floors are spotless, watched like a hawk and every product tested, did not know this was being added. They would have been able to tell themselves by weight. Yes, product weight is used for shipping manifests too.

This is obfuscation of the fact, that china as a state actor has perpetrated this crime against our country period. full stop.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not correct. HSMs are required so that the company does not need to have PIN codes exposed anywhere. Not having PINs or full credit card data makes your life easier as there is nothing to steal from you in the first place. If your company stored PIN codes it means you were in breach of the contract and it had to lie to the auditors to pass the certification.

It is correct. Incompetence abounds. You are correct about the HSM but it does not enforce anything except for the exchange between whoever and MC. You do realize that pin codes are entered into a UI and phone system as plain text right? There are PCI audits but they are a joke.

You realize when we talk pins we mean authorizing your credit card chip&pin transaction? Nothing to do with your phone pin or maybe som other pins.

The pin we are talking about is what is customized on your credit card (directly in its memory) or its equivalent in your bank's HSM for the sole purpose of performing CVM step negotiated by yor card and payment terminal.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're starting to realize that not all cultures are that great. >I think it’s more that you’ve valued the low per unit price over having a healthy contract. Well, when the choice is to either play ball or go out of business, it's not a tough decision.

> You're starting to realize that not all cultures are that great. That's sounding pretty racist

culture != race

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#559
My interpretation after reading several articles is that there had to be collusion from within the US's own ranks. The CIA itself and that what you will later find out is that this is what the Clintons "sold" to China was our own corrupted intelligence agency.

Re: The Big Hack: How China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate Amazon and Apple

#560

>Amazon’s security team conducted its own investigation into AWS’s Beijing facilities and found altered motherboards there as well, including more sophisticated designs than they’d previously encountered. >...the malicious chips were thin enough that they’d been embedded between the layers of fiberglass onto which the other components were attached >...that generation of chips was smaller than a sharpened pencil tip,…

> I hope this corrects the mistaken believe that China can't home grow sophisticated tech. There's nothing particularly sophisticated about what they did, especially given what China has access to as one of the central hubs of tech manufacturing. There are two dozen nations (or more) that could do this from a strictly technical standpoint (few have the kind of required supply chain access to pull it off at scale in a…

IC fabrication and packaged component assembly are very different things. China doesn't have anything near this level of sophistication, at least not without any outside help.
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