A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities • Hacker News Board

Re: A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities

#11

Post by kazagistar » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 2:58 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #6

thrower123 wrote: post #2

Musk seems to attract so, so many tinfoil hat type conspiracy theories. He's veering into being almost a Hank Rearden caricature. EDIT: The tinfoil bit was over the top, but he's such a lightning rod and attracts so much criticism and persecution from the entrenched interests he is trying to disrupt, that it starts to look like there is some shadowy cabal trying to bring him down. I rather like the guy, we need some…

Is the accusation of something being a "conspiracy theory" still a valid dismissal after Snowden?

Or it was never a valid criticism on its own, but rather a shorthand to explain a toxic behavior pattern by certain people who would seek out all kinds of unsubtantiated nonsense regardless of merit (Lizard People, Illuminati, Social Marxism, etc). It's unfortunate that some people used it as a thought-terminating phrase against all conspiracies.

Re: A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities

#12

Post by charliesharding » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

bovermyer wrote: post #8

Short version of the article: One op-ed article attacking SpaceX's safety practices appears in the newspapers of several space-industry-oriented cities. The article is not written by the person it is attributed to, but rather by two people apparently affiliated with a PR firm in Washington, DC. One of the three main clients of said PR firm is Boeing, SpaceX's direct competitor.

Safety practices for people going into space? Honestly.. Pretty sure people going out of the atmosphere, inches away from an instant, unimaginable death are aware that it's not exactly safe. The company obviously has a huge vested interest in not having people die but it's kind of inevitable when you're in such a high stakes game. NASA has had plenty of deaths

Re: A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities

#13

Post by Steel_Phoenix » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

I'm glad Ars and others are doing this kind of reporting. The populace needs frequent reminders that ulterior motives are everywhere.

There's a nearly inevitable lack of conscience within deeply established institutions where people, in committee, are paid to seek an outcome.

Re: A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities

#14

Post by newswriter99 » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

I'm curious as to whether Eric Berger (the reporter who wrote this piece) saw the op-ed on the Houston Chronicle first (he worked for them before Ars) and smelled something fishy.

The fact that the Chron used a screencap of Musk smoking that blunt to go along with the anti-SpaceX op-ed is unbelievable. Letting a PR firm throw mud at a client's competitor via a thinly-veiled op-ed is one thing, but helping them by taking part in the propaganda machine to that extent is something else entirely.

Re: A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities

#15

Post by justtopost » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:34 PM UTC

charliesharding wrote: post #12

bovermyer wrote: post #8

Short version of the article: One op-ed article attacking SpaceX's safety practices appears in the newspapers of several space-industry-oriented cities. The article is not written by the person it is attributed to, but rather by two people apparently affiliated with a PR firm in Washington, DC. One of the three main clients of said PR firm is Boeing, SpaceX's direct competitor.

Safety practices for people going into space? Honestly.. Pretty sure people going out of the atmosphere, inches away from an instant, unimaginable death are aware that it's not exactly safe. The company obviously has a huge vested interest in not having people die but it's kind of inevitable when you're in such a high stakes game. NASA has had plenty of deaths

From the space people I talk to, many in the very recent past harbored this notion that SpaceX was irresponsible with their early move-fast methods. However, as predicted, that all slowed down to a similarly glacial pace once they became entrenched in the red tape machine. Parity in that reguard is rapidly approaching.

And a nitpick, NASA was the pioneer, and pushed hard during the cold war to develop ICBM tech, the failure rate then was more in line with the goals. As its just minor economic and exploration roles now, with less polarizing military applications, we see less frantic push. I.e. killing a few people to prevent ww3 > next internet sat/artists on mars/astroid mining. Its not a fair comparison.

Re: A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities

#16

Post by skybrian » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:52 PM UTC

bovermyer wrote: post #8

Short version of the article: One op-ed article attacking SpaceX's safety practices appears in the newspapers of several space-industry-oriented cities. The article is not written by the person it is attributed to, but rather by two people apparently affiliated with a PR firm in Washington, DC. One of the three main clients of said PR firm is Boeing, SpaceX's direct competitor.

A couple nits:

At first glance, these op-eds (which are linked to) appear similar rather than identical.

Also, they confirmed "at least 4 out of 6".

Re: A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities

#17

Post by ejb99 » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:52 PM UTC

If you just assume that about 100% of what you read on the internet, see on the tv news, or read in a newspaper is bought and paid for by someone with a economic interest in the topic, you'll probably be right about 90%+ of the time.

Re: A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities

#18

Post by marnett » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:56 PM UTC

kazagistar wrote: post #11

tomp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the accusation of something being a "conspiracy theory" still a valid dismissal after Snowden?

Or it was never a valid criticism on its own, but rather a shorthand to explain a toxic behavior pattern by certain people who would seek out all kinds of unsubtantiated nonsense regardless of merit (Lizard People, Illuminati, Social Marxism, etc). It's unfortunate that some people used it as a thought-terminating phrase against all conspiracies.

Do you mean Cultural Marxism? I haven't heard of Social Marxism before.

Re: A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities

#19

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: A shadowy op-ed campaign is now smearing SpaceX in space cities

#20

Post by octorian » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

codeulike wrote: post #5

thrower123 wrote: post #2

Musk seems to attract so, so many tinfoil hat type conspiracy theories. He's veering into being almost a Hank Rearden caricature. EDIT: The tinfoil bit was over the top, but he's such a lightning rod and attracts so much criticism and persecution from the entrenched interests he is trying to disrupt, that it starts to look like there is some shadowy cabal trying to bring him down. I rather like the guy, we need some…

A tin-foil hat isn't really required, you just need to RTFA: An article critical of SpaceX has been repeatedly submitted to (and published in) 4 newspapers by a PR group called LMG who list Boeing as one of their major customers. Boeing are SpaceX's only competitor in the commercial crew area.

Yet I somehow feel like the whole Commercial Crew contract wouldn't even exist had SpaceX not paved the way.

Other space launch activities, however, have been getting their lunch eaten by SpaceX. This is probably pissing off everyone who was comfortable with the old approach, not just Boeing.