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IQ Matters Less Than You Think

nautil.us

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Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#91

Post by teilo »

jlawson wrote: post #87
teilo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm around 150, and I don't consider myself smarter than Feynman. And I'm no savant, am socially well adjusted, and not on the autism scale. This, among many other data points, has led me to question the entire concept of IQ. The measurement of IQ borders on pseudo-science. It measures something, but what exactly? Everyone has a different answer. Ok, sure, intelligence. Now try to define "intelligence" empirically. W…

You don't need to "define" it in some philosophical sense to use it. Compare "mass". What is mass? Can you really define it? You can say what it does, but what "is" it? Well, nobody can define it, except in terms of the things that it does . Because those are all we see of it. We can measure it, we see those measurements let us predict other outcomes. So we can use our knowledge of mass in practical, predictive ways…

I never claimed that intelligence is nothing. I said that the IQ measurement is itself not worth much except as a general guide in fairly broad ranges.

Intelligence is certainly something. It is relevant. But it is not precise, and is useful, as I said, only in the broadest strokes. And like all psychometrics, the manner in which it is measured is itself not stable.

But comparing intelligence to mass or any other physical measurement is a non sequitur. Mass is precisely measurable with perfectly repeatable results, and has perfectly repeatable interactions.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#92

Post by Alex888 »

Intelligence doesn't matter much when you have it. It matters quite a lot when you don't.

Like in basketball - being 2.50m tall doesn't mean you'll beat everyone on the court. But being 1.50m pretty much guarantees you're out of luck.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#93

Post by toasterlovin »

cm2187 wrote: post #89

The title is a bit misleading. The study is basically comparing the path of the top 1% to the top 2% of the IQ distribution and arguing that it doesn't matter that much in term of extraordinary achievements (nobel prize, etc). If you compare the top 20% to the bottom 20% of the distribution I bet there will be a strong correlation to professional sucess.

And there's also probably a big difference between the top 0.01% percent and the top 1%. The difference between the top 1% and top 2% isn't very important for most types of talent. Being in one of those categories for athletic talent, for instance, wouldn't get you into a professional sports league of any kind.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#94

Post by raverbashing »

petercooper wrote: post #83
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MENSA?

I'm not at the level required for MENSA (140 in the UK) but all I heard when I looked into it is it's a bunch of pretty dysfunctional people trying to one-up each other. I already have Reddit and HN for that :-D

Couldn't have thought of a better description

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#95

Post by cm2187 »

toasterlovin wrote: post #93
cm2187 wrote: post #89

The title is a bit misleading. The study is basically comparing the path of the top 1% to the top 2% of the IQ distribution and arguing that it doesn't matter that much in term of extraordinary achievements (nobel prize, etc). If you compare the top 20% to the bottom 20% of the distribution I bet there will be a strong correlation to professional sucess.

And there's also probably a big difference between the top 0.01% percent and the top 1%. The difference between the top 1% and top 2% isn't very important for most types of talent. Being in one of those categories for athletic talent, for instance, wouldn't get you into a professional sports league of any kind.

True but you are assuming the IQ test is inifinitely precise which I doubt it is. It is only a measure of intelligence.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#96

Post by pixl97 »

avryhof wrote: post #31

Anyone who knows that their D&D Character with a 20 INT isn't invincible. You have to have a combination of scores in all of the attributes to succeed. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't apply this to real life. That being said, I often find that I over-think tasks, and end up never completing them because I try to make them perfect, and find out at some point that I can't. What's more important than "perfect" is "…

>Anyone who knows that their D&D Character with a 20 INT isn't invincible.

Isn't this some kind of circular logic? A character with high intelligence is just that a charade of the user playing it. So it doesn't matter if the INT is high, if the player is a moron bad things will still happen.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#97

Post by toasterlovin »

teilo wrote: post #80
account2 wrote: post #28

I wonder how many IQ test misclassify intelligence? Feynman had a score of 125 and many people here have a high score than that. I bet no one here with a higher score of 125 are actually smarter than Feynman though. I think this is just one of many possible such examples where IQ test miss the purported people they were suppose to capture. Feynman’s score wouldn’t even qualify him for MENSA. I wonder how many IQ exam…

I'm around 150, and I don't consider myself smarter than Feynman. And I'm no savant, am socially well adjusted, and not on the autism scale. This, among many other data points, has led me to question the entire concept of IQ. The measurement of IQ borders on pseudo-science. It measures something, but what exactly? Everyone has a different answer. Ok, sure, intelligence. Now try to define "intelligence" empirically. W…

FWIW, IQ is not pseudo-science. The research around IQ is some of the most robust psychological research that exists. In fact, it is one of the few areas of psychology that has basically been unscathed by the replication crisis.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#98

Post by zachruss92 »

I have an interesting take on this article. I had an IQ > 150 when I was originally tested when I was a teenager. Later in my teenage years, I experienced trauma that resulted in my IQ dropping by 20+ points, permanently. This means that my IQ is currently in the higher end of the normal range. Here is what I noticed:

1. I feel less "sharp". By this I mean I feel slower to react to things and it takes longer for me to formulate thoughts. Words "caught on the tip of my tongue" happen more often.

2. It takes longer for me to learn. This applies to things like reading comprehension all the way up to learning new technologies. I need to read more slowly and practice more often before I can master a topic.

3. My concentration has decreased. I have ADHD, even as an adult, but following the trauma, it became worse.

What it didn't affect:

1. My motivation. I've always considered myself an entrepreneur. If anything, I am more motivated to be successful - even if I have to work harder.

2. My dedication to lifelong learning. I am a strong proponent of learning new things is important to being successful.

TLDR; IQ has its advantages, but it isn't the only factor.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#99

Post by alfonsodev »

sureaboutthis wrote: post #73

I started to write a much longer response but don't have time. My IQ was tested at 142 some decades ago and, from what I've read, would be higher cause the tests have changed. I was always very successful in my jobs but, when it came to starting my own business, I needed a lot of active encouragement or I would give up too quickly. However, in two cases, a business clicked with me, for some reason, which made me exci…

Disclaimer, I'm not a psychologist. I think IQ is a measure on how good you are manipulating abstractions and detecting patterns. For this other part

>> when it came to starting my own business, I needed a lot of active encouragement or I would give up too quickly

For that abstraction and patterns doesn't help, this is about your temperament, I'd look on how you score in the big five of personality traits. If you don't want to rely on being encouraged all the time. I think you could learn a set micro skills to compensate for those aspects that your natural temperament falls into 'need encouragement' pattern. Note there might not be known micro skill for some of traits, but at least you will have a model that explains your tendencies.

Re: IQ Matters Less Than You Think

#100

Post by majidazimi »

Well, I like to think persistence matters more but getting into top 1% of everything requires more than determination.

1. Going from bad to good requires x amount of effort/persistence.

2. Going from good to best requires 1000x amount of effort.

When you've put 800x amount of effort, you'll realize this harsh bitter fact. You have already given up on your hobbies, family, social life, ... and you are still considered as "good+" not "best-". To bypass being-best-barrier you need more than persistence.

Things like IQ, family wealth, great coach, ... matter when you are approaching near top of the hill.

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