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An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

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71–80 of 165 posts

Re: An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

#71
post #46

This isn't simply a case of poor quality control. Sure, hoax articles have made it through some (largely pay-to-publish) journals in other fields from time to time. And yes those incidents should inspire reflection and correction, as well as a hit to the reputations of such journals. But this is much more. This is about a set of ideas that pass for expert scholarship despite having lost any tethering to to the real w…

When she says that one of the accepted papers was based on a premise of trans equality does anyone know to which paper she is referring to?

That'll be Strategies for Dealing with Cisnormative Discursive Aggression in the Workplace: Disruption, Criticism, Self-Enforcement, and Collusion ("Thesis: That trans people are all oppressed and constrained by cisnormative language in the workplace even if they don’t think they are, that trans activists who are avoided at work are proof of transphobia and trans men who are skeptical of trans activism are afraid of transphobia and/or taking advantage of male privilege"). It was rejected everywhere it was submitted.

Re: An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

#72
post #2

Representative quote: > "I am so utterly unimpressed," wrote Jacob T. Levy, a political theorist at McGill University, "by the fact that an enterprise that relies on a widespread presumption of not-fraud can be fooled some of the time by three people with Ph.D.s who spend 10 months deliberately trying to defraud it."

Representative quotes: "Is there any idea so outlandish that it won’t be published in a Critical/PoMo/Identity/‘Theory’ journal?" tweeted the Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker. "Three intrepid academics," wrote Yascha Mounk, an author and lecturer on government at Harvard, "just perpetrated a giant version of the Sokal Hoax, placing … fake papers in major academic journals. Call it Sokal Squared. The result is hilar…

Mounk didn't read the hoaxers writeup carefully enough to be a reliable judge; he gleefully tweeted two papers from the hoax that were rejected everywhere they were submitted, as evidence of the important problem the hoax uncovered --- this despite the fact that the hoaxers did in fact provide an accounting of what got accepted where (even though their writeup at the beginning of the piece misrepresented that accounting).

From what Pinker wrote, who knows if he even read it?

Re: An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of a peer review system is to detect fraud. If these bullshit papers got published, who knows how many of the other papers are of equal quality.

The point of peer review is to stop bad research, not fake research. The reviewers are supposed to make sure that the methods used to acquire the data are clearly documented and that the conclusions drawn from the data follow from the data that was collected. They can't verify that the data collected actually was collected without literally watching over the shoulder of the researcher while the researcher was collect…

>The point of peer review is to stop bad research, not fake research

I would submit that "fake research" is, in fact, bad research.

Re: An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

#74
post #70

If the author’s intention was to show the dubious quality of research in these fields, wouldn’t a better approach have been to select high impact articles from prestigious journals in the fields which they believed exemplified the problem, and then written rebuttals/critiques arguing why they are flawed?

If the particular research is non-falsifiable and the critic is convinced the entire field is not an academic discipline at all but a cult with its entirely own internal logic with no relation to reality, how would an objective rebuttal be constructed? Is the right way for atheists to engage with religious scholars to critique the most nonsensical output of theologians?

Re: An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

#75
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think generally people tend to assume that colleagues aren't dishonest, and mostly peer-review is supposed to catch honest mistakes. You could try working without any faith in your colleagues of course, but you are probably better of switching workplace if that sounds like reasonable behaviour to you.

What your describing sounds nothing like rigor.

The rigor comes from the experiment and the future analysis by other researchers, not from the review. You are expecting something from peer review that never exists.

Re: An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

#76
post #63

Discussed earlier on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18127811 The hoaxers writeup is, I think, pretty misleading. Their work tended to get rejected from high-impact journals. They submitted multiple stories to some journals (notably, to Hypatia , which they brag about getting accepted in) and leave a clear impression that their most ridiculous work was what made it in, rather than a much more banal paper. Th…

It's hard to tell specifically how their methodology went, but this bit of the author's write-up jumps out:

> As for our performance, 80% of our papers overall went to full peer review, which keeps with the standard 10-20% of papers that are “desk rejected” without review at major journals across the field. We improved this ratio from 0% at first to 94.4% after a few months of experimenting with much more hoaxish papers.

This makes it sound like the authors wrote a bunch of absurd articles, all of which got desk rejected, and then they iterated until they got papers accepted somewhere. With that methodology, the conclusion ("we got papers accepted somewhere!") doesn't seem very surprising.

Edited to add: if the above is correct and their early submissions were all rejected, one could reasonably say of the results: "Editorial standards at all journals surveyed were more rigorous than the authors initially expected".

Re: An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

#77
post #11

Can someone comment on whether these are respectable journals or not, within their fields? Every few years someone will do a Sokal-hoax-esque thing in scientific fields, but usually they're just getting a paper into very-low-quality predatory journals that have only a nominal peer review process. I'm wondering if that's what happened here. Do humanities fields even have the same set of incentives leading to a prolife…

Well, they claim to have targeted "top journals" in the field, but it's not like "intersectional gender studies" is a particularly big field. I looked up two journals they had published in and their articles got less than one citation per year typically ([1]&[2]), not exactly a booming field. [1]: https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=145138&tip=sid... [2]: https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=14798&…

> it's not like "intersectional gender studies" is a particularly big field

And let's hope it stays that way. This will help.

Re: An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

#78
post #2

Representative quote: > "I am so utterly unimpressed," wrote Jacob T. Levy, a political theorist at McGill University, "by the fact that an enterprise that relies on a widespread presumption of not-fraud can be fooled some of the time by three people with Ph.D.s who spend 10 months deliberately trying to defraud it."

Alternative take: A system designed to detect bad research failed to detect blatant falsehoods, algorithmically generated noise, rabid propaganda and other seemingly easy things to detect. That PhDs worked on this doesn’t mean the system didn’t fail spectacularly.

Peer Review is not set up to detect fraudulent research and attempts to do so are fraught with risk, since established researchers often have a hard time believing in results from new paradigms. What the heck is an author supposed to do if a reviewer says "I think these numbers are made up"?

The purpose of peer review is to decide whether a paper is useful to the community, whether the presentation is good enough that the community can precisely understand what happened, and whether it has methodological issues that the authors may have missed. But we always approach reviews with a charitable lens, even when reviewing for extremely low-acceptance outlets.

The process that detects the bad research comes afterwards, as it should.

Re: An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of peer review is to stop bad research, not fake research. The reviewers are supposed to make sure that the methods used to acquire the data are clearly documented and that the conclusions drawn from the data follow from the data that was collected. They can't verify that the data collected actually was collected without literally watching over the shoulder of the researcher while the researcher was collect…

>The point of peer review is to stop bad research, not fake research I would submit that "fake research" is, in fact, bad research.

To a reviewer with three hours to spare, fake research is indistinguishable from good research. Unless you want to give me months to review a paper, I will not be able to detect fraud.

Instead I rely on the fact that the community will attempt to integrate these ideas after publication and arrive at the conclusion that the paper was garbage.

Re: An Elaborate Academic-Journal Hoax

#80
> To answer these questions, this article engages feminist geography and broader feminist literature and draws on nearly 1000 h of public observations of dogs and their human companions conducted at three dog parks in Southeast Portland, Oregon, beginning on 10 June 2016, and ending on 10 June 2017.

In Sokal's single hoax in 1996 he (and his buddies, I guess) made a claim, followed it by a non-sequitur of true but uninteresting sentences about physics, then repeated the claim. It was a sandwich with no meat in it, and the (small, non-peer-reviewed) post-modern journal ate it up.

Sokal wanted to show that a certain style of post-modern writing substituted scientific jargon for an argument (or at least it used references to esoteric scientific fields as pretentious, uninteresting metaphors). The elegance of parodying this style was that his submission contained no data at all. It wasn't merely that the conclusion of the submission wouldn't be replicated. It was that any conscious human should notice the complete lack of supporting evidence for the claim!

The upshot of the journal accepting the article was that "the emperor had no clothes," so to speak. Sokal went on to write a book showing how several prominent post-modern thinkers used scientific non-sequiturs to make their non-scientific ideas sound more weighty. (Just as he had in his hoax.)

These three authors, however, are going a different route from Sokal-- specifically, one that provides fake data as evidence of a claim. (Or I guess they could have actually sat at dog parks for 1000 hours, but it doesn't matter for the point I'm making.) By providing fake data, this hoax passes an initial filter which the Sokal hoax did not-- namely, the filter that should reject submissions which lack any supporting evidence whatsoever. That means this hoax only reveals a lack of replication and/or verification, whereas the Sokal hoax reveals a lack of both peer review and basic reading comprehension even by a non-physicist. That makes this a weaker class of hoax than the Sokal hoax.

Finally, the authors purport to be going after an entire "ideological slant" in academia. Whatever one thinks of that aim, it is enormous and amorphous when compared to the narrow aim of Sokal keeping scientific jargon from being misused/misplaced.

So to recap:

* 1996: strong hoax successful against a single pomo journal, weak but persuasive claim against coopting scientific jargon for non-scientific aims

* 2018: weak hoax successful against 7 of (total number?) journals, strong and unpersuasive claim against all leftist academic fields

Now I'm curious-- did anyone in the late 90s criticize Sokal's hoax on the grounds that his careful constraints would be ignored by future pranksters?

Edit: clarification

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