Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans

#131

Post by greglindahl » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

jmisavage wrote: post #110

ricardobeat wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? In Europe we’re seeing sales shoot up like a rocket. Model 3 deliveries haven’t even started yet. With the Hyundai Kona and Kia Niro the market will grow even more, and in 2020 VW will start flooding the market with EVs.

My only concern with VW is whether they'll be able to produce those battery packs as fast as the cars. They're certainly ambitious, they want to make 100k the first year and the plant they're using can make 1,500 a day which sounds insane when you hear Tesla is only making 5,000 a month. [1] https://www.vwvortex.com/news/volkswagen-news/d-electric-hat...

Tesla made 80,000 battery packs last quarter, and said that they peaked at 10,000 Model 3 battery packs in one week.

Re: Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans

#132

Post by CarVac » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:17 AM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #117

CarVac wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say that the XL1 doesn't count. I didn't count the EV1 either, which had the same drag coefficient. But TIL about the CLA. Note: the CLA was tested at 0.30 drag coefficient by Car and Driver, though.

Why wouldn't the XL1 count? It's got a production run, albeit limited. Car and Driver's numbers for Cd are higher for everyone, it seems (though certainly the CLA was notably higher). Then again the new A class is quoted at 0.22.

It doesn't count because they were able to change the form factor as they liked, whereas the Model S is a normal-looking sedan with fully exposed wheels.

Re: Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans

#133

Post by twblalock » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:19 AM UTC

Latteland wrote: post #114

twblalock wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla got almost $500 million from the Department of Energy. Yes, they paid it back, but that is not my point. My point is that Tesla would not have survived if it had not received that government money. Maybe its more meritorious to accept and repay a government loan than to be bailed out, but from the point of view of the taxpayer (and the free market) Tesla and GM both owe their survival to taxpayer money.

I believe it was a development loan, not a bailout. I don't understand why you point it out as underhanded. How would you compare Tesla to Chrysler and gm which really went bankrupt and had actual bailouts, not loans to develop new products in unexplored technical areas. GM got a more than $20b investment from the us government. I am glad we did save our auto industry in the us - but Tesla wasn't a bailout as I see i…

I didn’t say Tesla was a bailout, and I didn’t say it was underhanded. I said that Tesla would not have survived without government money, and that is true.

Re: Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans

#134

Post by CarVac » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:19 AM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #120

CarVac wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say that the XL1 doesn't count. I didn't count the EV1 either, which had the same drag coefficient. But TIL about the CLA. Note: the CLA was tested at 0.30 drag coefficient by Car and Driver, though.

Interestingly, there were some questions about C-and-D's comparison between the CLA and the S: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mercedes-benz-cla-drag-co... > The only Mercedes-Benz CLA model that actually is the aerodynamic benchmark for current production cars is the CLA 180 BlueEfficiency Edition, a variant of the small “four-door coupe” that will never be available in the US. > With an official drag coefficient…

I wonder why they didn't include grille shutters and many of those other changes on the standard versions. (Yes, because it costs money. But the Teslas have all the aero optimizations on all versions.)

I have seen grille shutters on C-classes in person since then...

Re: Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans

#135

Post by xref » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:20 AM UTC

resters wrote: post #105

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This needs to be regulated against, in my opinion.

It’s just bad UX. They will add some rotary encoders before long. No need to regulate it :)

if it is still touchscreen only there's not much way to improve it, you'll have to watch the pane of glass and not the road since there's no tactile information.

Re: Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans

#136

Post by greglindahl » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:21 AM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #57

HBlix wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk says a lot of things, I’ll believe that they have a viable pickup when it’s rolling off the assembly lines. I’m also not sure that the market for pickups will care too much about having an EV. All in all it’s a very different market with a different customer base than luxury sedans.

more torque! highly capable AWD

And a quieter ride. I bet a significant % of the existing "truck" market would be interested in these features.

Re: Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans

#137

Post by pound » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

romed wrote: post #54

btilly wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been obvious to me for about 20 years. Ever since I read the case study in The Innovator's Dilemma explaining that electric cars would take over around 2020. If Elon should burn out and crash Tesla, it will still happen. Only instead of being Tesla delivering the death blow, it will be those electric golf carts growing up, turning into full cars, and wiping out traditional automakers. Either way the underlying…

The case for electric cars taking over by 2020 is looking pretty darn wrong at this point, isn’t it?

My next car would be electric. We just decided to wait couple of years to get more brands to choose from (now it's only model3 vs leaf vs bolt (and not sure about i3)) and I think many around us are in the same situation - right now it feels like it's past the very beginning of it being not on a hobbyist scale. So year or two - and that's exactly around 2020

Re: Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans

#138

Post by FireBeyond » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

CarVac wrote: post #132

FireBeyond wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't the XL1 count? It's got a production run, albeit limited. Car and Driver's numbers for Cd are higher for everyone, it seems (though certainly the CLA was notably higher). Then again the new A class is quoted at 0.22.

It doesn't count because they were able to change the form factor as they liked, whereas the Model S is a normal-looking sedan with fully exposed wheels.

Do you also not count the Insight?

"That's not fair, they were -trying- to make it aerodynamic!" doesn't really fly as an argument.

Re: Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans

#139

Post by greglindahl » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

pretendscholar wrote: post #121

greglindahl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most electric cars have only one gear. Why does it break down more often?

Just saying as a thought experiment that having fewer parts does not mean it will break down less often.

That's not what a "thought experiment" is -- you confidently said something that has no basis in reality and no argument behind it. You didn't say "maybe" or "might".

A "thought experiment" is when you set the stage to explain something using fundamental physics.

There are hundreds of thousands of one-gear cars on the road. There is data.

Re: Tesla’s Model 3 Is Becoming One of America’s Best-Selling Sedans

#140

Post by FireBeyond » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

CarVac wrote: post #134

FireBeyond wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, there were some questions about C-and-D's comparison between the CLA and the S: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mercedes-benz-cla-drag-co... > The only Mercedes-Benz CLA model that actually is the aerodynamic benchmark for current production cars is the CLA 180 BlueEfficiency Edition, a variant of the small “four-door coupe” that will never be available in the US. > With an official drag coefficient…

I wonder why they didn't include grille shutters and many of those other changes on the standard versions. (Yes, because it costs money. But the Teslas have all the aero optimizations on all versions.) I have seen grille shutters on C-classes in person since then...

That I don't know, and would love to see!