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Verizon Says 44,000 Managers Qualify for Company Buyout Offer

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Re: Verizon Says 44,000 Managers Qualify for Company Buyout Offer

#21
post #2

Amazing that they have 44,000 managers

They use the term manager for lots of roles that don't actually have any management function. I worked on a team within Verizon that had ~40 people, all of whom were considered managers, even though none of us, other than the two actual managers, had any people under us.

I work at AT&T. “Manager” here means, basically, “not unionized” - so basically not technicians, call center agents, or retail store workers. “Supervisor” is the term of art for “has people under them”.

Re: Verizon Says 44,000 Managers Qualify for Company Buyout Offer

#23
post #2

Amazing that they have 44,000 managers

Had a friend at a yuuuge company (comparable to Verizon) and their title changed as they spent more time with the company w/o their role or responsibilities changing a lot throughout the years. After 7-8 years at the given company this friend of mine became a "VP" and first I was "WOW, look at you!", but then he explained that he is doing the same sh*t, maybe a tad bit more, but this is how they get their promotions,…

Bank of America?

Re: Verizon Says 44,000 Managers Qualify for Company Buyout Offer

#24
post #5

Aren't these buyout offers the worst way to trim headcount? The people most likely to take them are the ones who are good at their job, and confident of landing another one at a different company. The people least likely to take them are the mediocre ones who know they'll never land an equally good position elsewhere. If you want to keep your best people, this seems like the exact opposite way to do it.

If the company is laying people off en masse, your "best people" are going to start looking for other jobs anyway unless they have faith in the company leadership.

Off the top of my head, a couple of ways offers help in that respect:

Buyout offers soften the blow ahead of involuntary layoffs. They give people a sense of agency, which improves morale at a time when it's likely to be low.

Offers give people time to plan. Even if they don't take the offer, they'll have an idea of the numbers the company is looking to lose.

Offers help spread out the impact of layoffs. Laying off a large number of staff at once can cause organizational chaos; laying off a large number of staff over a span of weeks casts a pall over everything until the layoffs are over. Having people leave voluntarily gives time for an orderly transition without causing as much dread.

Re: Verizon Says 44,000 Managers Qualify for Company Buyout Offer

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They use the term manager for lots of roles that don't actually have any management function. I worked on a team within Verizon that had ~40 people, all of whom were considered managers, even though none of us, other than the two actual managers, had any people under us.

Yeah, I worked at a public school district where everybody who was neither hourly, nor a teacher, nor someone high in administration qualifies as a "manager". Pretty much the entire IT team was coded as a manager. It really just meant "salaried, 12-month, no overtime, non-instructional employee". Outside IT most of the people actually did manage people, though.

Is this a tax thing? I've seen this at a few big old guard software companies. It confused the hell out of me coming from startups and seeing the guys next to me were all VPs/Managers (in the Engineering aisles).

Re: Verizon Says 44,000 Managers Qualify for Company Buyout Offer

#26
post #5

Aren't these buyout offers the worst way to trim headcount? The people most likely to take them are the ones who are good at their job, and confident of landing another one at a different company. The people least likely to take them are the mediocre ones who know they'll never land an equally good position elsewhere. If you want to keep your best people, this seems like the exact opposite way to do it.

This policy sounds slightly similar to Amazon paying employees $5000 to quit. [0]

I suppose that it is intended to increase worker motivation during reshuffling and reorganization when morale is likely to be low.

[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/21/why-amazon-pays-employees-50...

Re: Verizon Says 44,000 Managers Qualify for Company Buyout Offer

#28
post #5

Aren't these buyout offers the worst way to trim headcount? The people most likely to take them are the ones who are good at their job, and confident of landing another one at a different company. The people least likely to take them are the mediocre ones who know they'll never land an equally good position elsewhere. If you want to keep your best people, this seems like the exact opposite way to do it.

Many times the offers are a thinly-veiled attempt to get rid of their older (more expensive) employees. People nearing retirement age are most likely to have many years of service, making a severance package that pays per tenure especially appealing. And there’s the threat of layoffs if you don’t accept the offer. If you’re in your 50s or 60s it’s hard to get a new job regardless of how qualified you are, so this makes gambling on your continued employment risky.

My mother went through this exact exercise two years ago. Management was clear that, if not enough employees took the buyout, they would start layoffs with less generous terms. From previous rounds of layoffs she knew older employees were the first to go, so she took the buyout and got 52 weeks paid severance.

The day she resigned, she received a termination letter offering only 40 weeks. Fortunately the company stood by the more generous offer. But it took her the better part of a year to get a new job, and it pays much less than the one she invested 30+ years in. She’s from a generation when you worked at a single company for life, but companies don’t operate like that any more.

Re: Verizon Says 44,000 Managers Qualify for Company Buyout Offer

#29
post #5

Aren't these buyout offers the worst way to trim headcount? The people most likely to take them are the ones who are good at their job, and confident of landing another one at a different company. The people least likely to take them are the mediocre ones who know they'll never land an equally good position elsewhere. If you want to keep your best people, this seems like the exact opposite way to do it.

Many times the offers are a thinly-veiled attempt to get rid of their older (more expensive) employees. People nearing retirement age are most likely to have many years of service, making a severance package that pays per tenure especially appealing. And there’s the threat of layoffs if you don’t accept the offer. If you’re in your 50s or 60s it’s hard to get a new job regardless of how qualified you are, so this mak…

Almost the exact same thing happened to one of my family members too. 50 year old programmer with a decade+ tenure at a large corporation. 52 weeks severance retirement offer. It took a year to find a new job and only now, almost a decade later, is he above his old salary.

Re: Verizon Says 44,000 Managers Qualify for Company Buyout Offer

#30

>> "Verizon had 153,100 employees as of June." and 44,000 managers qualify for the buyout. Let's assume that 100% of managers qualify, so they only have 44k managers. What am I missing in corp America? 1 in 3-4 is a manager?

Yeah. It's a stupid title like "architect."
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