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Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

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Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#81

Post by yardie »

ekianjo wrote: post #65
empath75 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are guys that my brother would love to promote Manager complains about unions. I’m absolutely stunned.

if unions were not actively trying to sabotage their own companies most of the time, maybe the sentiment would be different. There are several cases when unions actively push to destroy companies just to get short term benefits.

If that’s the case then please list them. I can find many more examples of executives destroying companies and employee livelihoods for short term gain.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#82

Post by crooked-v »

sethammons wrote: post #59
empath75 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are guys that my brother would love to promote Manager complains about unions. I’m absolutely stunned.

Does that make the account no longer valid? His problem is not "lazy union members," he has folks he thinks are getting screwed over that he would fight for a promotion for.

And yet presumably the union would be quite happy with across-the-board raises, so the complaint tries to casually gloss over the implied conflict with management about who deserves a more limited supply of raises.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#83

Post by crooked-v »

InTheArena wrote: post #49
irrational wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are unions anti universal healthcare? It seems like they would be since it would be one less thing they could negotiate about.

They were in the Obamacare debate. Unions fought like hell against the Cadillac care provisions because it did in fact limit health care.

Obamacare is very, very far from universal healthcare. A more accurate comparison would be Medicare For All, which has broad support from a variety of unions.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#84

Post by crooked-v »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #51

I’ve always thought the answer to the union “problem” was easy: multiple unions. Mandate that no more than, say, 30% of the workforce may be part of a single union, then let them fight it out. Monopolies suck both when it comes to corporations and the workforce. In my experience corruption sinks in on both sides when people can get away with putting in place policies to protect the status quo. When there are multiple…

"I support unions, but only when a non-plurality of employees can join them and they aren't allowed to work together" is an anti-union position.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#85

Post by bg4 »

sethammons wrote: post #41
ravitation wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company doesn't become adversarial with its workforce because of unions; a company is forced to treat its workforce more as an equal because of unions. The adversarial nature of the relationship between a workforce and its company is not a result of unions, it exists without unions. It's just that, without unions, companies are free to largely ignore the demands of individual workers. Control over compensation and…

> A company doesn't become adversarial with its workforce because of unions; a company is forced to treat its workforce more as an equal because of unions. I'm not convinced. My brother's work has a warehouse. The warehouse unionized (a large push by two folks who are no longer there). Most of the warehouse workers are now making _less_ than they were before due to union dues. There are guys that my brother would lov…

> a large push by two folks who are no longer there

Did they work for the union? Off to the next warehouse to liberate?

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#86

Post by PretzelFisch »

InTheArena wrote: post #47
ravitation wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company doesn't become adversarial with its workforce because of unions; a company is forced to treat its workforce more as an equal because of unions. The adversarial nature of the relationship between a workforce and its company is not a result of unions, it exists without unions. It's just that, without unions, companies are free to largely ignore the demands of individual workers. Control over compensation and…

This is not always true. For example, the union relationship with Eastern Airline, where the union decided that it was better to eventually kill the airline in exchange for a better contract today. (Reference - Hard Landing by Thomas Petzinger). Unions are yet another human organization. Like all human organizations, it in-enviably becomes about sustaining itself, and that sustaining and power structure can become as…

In most cases it's best to get the money today rather then wait for a future, that may not come to exist.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#87

Post by i_made_a_booboo »

krapp wrote: post #54
okr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice to hear opinions from the workers at amazon. I find it very compelling to agree with you. But i also like to make my own decision, to negotiate. My ideal, at least. And i expect my elders and seniors to teach me about the dangers in this world. And I also think, its a two way street. I will not risk my life, and Amazon does not want dead people. And is US and Dubai really comparable? Why do people go…

I can only speak for myself as an Amazon fulfillment center employee... I haven't directly witnessed any of the horror stories people tell about working there, but knowing the culture as I do, I would not be surprised at all that such things happen. Someone complained on the VOA board where I work about having been docked for time off task when they had to clean up after their own nosebleed, but that's anecdotal. You…

>In an unregulated market, there are no bad actors, only inefficient ones.

The history of planet earth is full of bad actors in all kinds of markets, regulated or not. The animal kingdom is full of examples of deception. Seeking personal gain at the expense of others is a very deep feature of life.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#88

Post by FridgeSeal »

ekianjo wrote: post #65
empath75 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are guys that my brother would love to promote Manager complains about unions. I’m absolutely stunned.

if unions were not actively trying to sabotage their own companies most of the time, maybe the sentiment would be different. There are several cases when unions actively push to destroy companies just to get short term benefits.

> There are several cases when unions actively push to destroy companies just to get short term benefits.

And there are many-fold more cases where managers and execs have ruthlessly driven companies into the ground for their own personal short term gain. That's unequivocally worse than workers trying to protect their livelihoods.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#89

Post by HarryHirsch »

InTheArena wrote: post #49
irrational wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are unions anti universal healthcare? It seems like they would be since it would be one less thing they could negotiate about.

They were in the Obamacare debate. Unions fought like hell against the Cadillac care provisions because it did in fact limit health care.

What drove the costs of the "Cadillac plans" up was that the members worked in injury-prone industries, i.e. fishing, construction &c. The benefits weren't particularly rich. Small wonder that the unions in those industries would come out against provisions that would penalize their members for working in their line of work.

There's plenty of things wrong with US unions, but opposition of fishermen to Obamacare isn't amongst them.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers Lose Bonuses, Stock Awards for Raises

#90

Post by FridgeSeal »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #51

I’ve always thought the answer to the union “problem” was easy: multiple unions. Mandate that no more than, say, 30% of the workforce may be part of a single union, then let them fight it out. Monopolies suck both when it comes to corporations and the workforce. In my experience corruption sinks in on both sides when people can get away with putting in place policies to protect the status quo. When there are multiple…

Also known as "I support Unions, but only when they don't actually have any power".
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