Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#141

Post by DelightOne » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 11:43 PM UTC

j45 wrote: post #131

DelightOne wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a horizon on the future, finally thanks to the convergence of more accessible connectivity, devices and capabilites of digital experiences in the next 2 years. For services and apps to emerge, to make things less abysmal? I don’t see what you are hopeful for, what the given things would change.

It's more about the content itself than the platforms/services and apps.. although those are issues too. Today most places are creating content a 20 year old way. It can't keep up with today's pace or depth of ongoing changes, or how quickly education content is needed on new topics in the future.

I think it boils down to features which are not currently available, which hamper self-directed learning today.

Is it that what you mean with „new capabilities of digital experiences“ and „creating content a 20 year old way“? Or do you talk about the formats they are created in?

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#142

Post by LrnByTeach » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 12:33 AM UTC

Very well research supported points in the article.

Four things physical classroom teacher-led course offer which is often missed in an online course are:

1. well formulated Lesson Plans

2. Regular Homework assignments with Timelines and Deadlines

3. Periodic testing & grading

4. Peer students who are a huge source of motivation and inspiration

Online courses may offer some of the above in one form or another, but not nearly as effective as Classroom lead course as pointed in the article.

> Of course, another time-honored source of extrinsic motivation are deadlines.

> Course timelines and deadlines hold students accountable, spurring them to produce, keep up, and complete their work. In the ‘learn at your own pace’ model, timelines and deadlines are negotiable, at best, non-existent, at worst.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#143

Post by bcheung » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 12:34 AM UTC

thinkmassive wrote: post #110

scarface74 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the purpose of the actual certificate? As someone who has done dozens of interviews - I’m not a manager, but for about two years I was responsible for hiring and I’ve sat as part of a panel- most people don’t take most certificates seriously. Some, including myself, take it as a slightly negative signal. I’ve seen too many paper tigers. But then again, except for entry level positions, few hiring managers care…

If someone has completed a certification or course, it becomes a potential topic for discussion. It doesn't matter much to me whether they paid for it, if there's proof it was completed (a code repo or documentation could be an alternative to paying for a certificate). I have certifications that people well below my skill level were also able to achieve, but I know I can speak to the topics much more authoritatively.…

Nand2Tetris looks really cool. Just signed up to audit the course. Thanks for mentioning it.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#144

Post by bcheung » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 12:38 AM UTC

One of the things not mentioned, and maybe it is unique to my personality, is that I often don't like the exercises given in courses and come up with my own. If something is obvious and intuitive when hearing the concept, it is usually enough to internalize it. But if something is vague, I like to write some code and experiment with the concept to see how things interact.

MOOCS too often penalize you for not doing their exercises that don't always provide that much value and don't credit you for exploring other concepts further.

Additionally, when you have questions, office hours, message forums, Slack channels, and external sources (youtube, other courses, blog articles) are good sources.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#145

Post by toyg » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 12:59 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #63

boojums wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, why did you want to change from bit twiddling to enterprise?

Money and optionality. 10 years ago after staying at one company for 9 years and before that at another for three doing mostly C and C++ with a smattering of VB6, Perl, and JavaScript, I looked at where most of the jobs were in my local market - a major metropolitan area with a lot of Enterprise Java/.Net and web jobs. I had two offers one for $20K more than I was making as a C++ developer and one as a high entry lev…

Aws won’t be marketable for long. It’s the sort of skillset that is a prime candidate for offshoring, and the bar to enter is very low.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#146

Post by barry-cotter » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:21 AM UTC

Grae wrote: post #23

These considerations are exactly why we started Thinkful and why we emphasize expert mentorship and accountability so much.

From looking over your website before and reading your reviews on coursereport you guys look great. From a marketing perspective you need to sell your students’ success more though. Following Austen Allred of lambdaschool.com on Twitter is just ridiculous. Job offer, job offer, job offer, this student tripled their annual earnings, this one quadrupled it, this one only doubled it but he’s working remote and travelling. Why did you acquire bloc if you’re not going to integrate the two courses?

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#147

Post by jpindar » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:23 AM UTC

MrEfficiency wrote: post #22

scarface74 wrote: post #2

I've learned everything I know for the last 20+ years after graduating from college at my own pace. I'm sure that's true for most developers.

When you have a project, you learn by necessity. When you are taking a course to expand your abilities, you learn voluntarily. I find learning via projects is the fastest and most useful. I am unsure if I will take courses ever again.

Learning by necessity while doing a project is the cause of many security issues.

Learning by necessity means you get the happy path to work.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#148

Post by stephengillie » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #51

thinkmassive wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m taking two courses on Coursera right now but only paid for a certificate in one. I plan to view all content from the other course, however Coursera will not grade the end-of-section quiz for non-paying students. It seems the only way to “complete” a Coursera course is to pay $50 so the assignments will be graded. At least this is the case for: https://www.coursera.org/learn/battery-management-systems

What’s the purpose of the actual certificate? As someone who has done dozens of interviews - I’m not a manager, but for about two years I was responsible for hiring and I’ve sat as part of a panel- most people don’t take most certificates seriously. Some, including myself, take it as a slightly negative signal. I’ve seen too many paper tigers. But then again, except for entry level positions, few hiring managers care…

Like everything on the resume, the point of certificates is to get a first interview. And some people use them to convince others to take them seriously in their daily lives.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#149

Post by stephengillie » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 1:27 AM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #114

blihp wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the same way but I think people like us tend to be heavily over-represented on HN and probably represent a small fraction of the total audience. Similarly, I like to watch YouTube videos for specific technical content where the vast majority seems to prefer pop culture and cat videos. A couple of other personality types / situations to consider: 1) Some people treat learning the way they treat a workout... procra…

I was thinking about this the other day. The idea that most people are just watching garbage on YouTube 'might' be true, and that viewing educational or technical content is an outlier, but I'm not so sure. Sure, there are countless massively popular channels with garbage pop content, but that may be due to the "general" nature of the content. The broad audience keeps it at the top of the most watched lists. I think…

Consuming irrelevant information is its own form of procrastination.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#150

Post by scarface74 » Thu, Oct 04, 2018, 3:05 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #145

scarface74 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money and optionality. 10 years ago after staying at one company for 9 years and before that at another for three doing mostly C and C++ with a smattering of VB6, Perl, and JavaScript, I looked at where most of the jobs were in my local market - a major metropolitan area with a lot of Enterprise Java/.Net and web jobs. I had two offers one for $20K more than I was making as a C++ developer and one as a high entry lev…

Aws won’t be marketable for long. It’s the sort of skillset that is a prime candidate for offshoring, and the bar to enter is very low.

There are basically a few parts to dealing with AWS:

Net ops: traditional networking, patching, security groups, manually provisioning resources, web based load balancer, and the kinds of things you do on prem. This part is easily outsourced. Also companies that just do a lift and shift of an on premise mindset usually would be better off with a cheaper VPS solution or even colo.

Devops: CLoudFormation (Infrastructure as Code), Code Deploy, CodePipeline, OpsWork (Chef?). Most of the outsourced labor and honestly most of the AWS support companies don’t have a clue about this.

Development: Databass optimizations with SQL and NoSql data stores (DynamoDB, ElasticSearch), Autoscaling, SQS, SNS, lambda, etc. Again, most outsourced labor don’t have a clue about this either.

Most “AWS Architects” come from a traditional networking background and that’s all they know. They take their knowledge and map it very badly to AWS.

Someone who has done full stack software architecture and knows AWS inside out from a development, devops, and net ops perspective will be competitive.

Just like all other outsourcing, companies keep the “architects” in house or local and outsource the commoditized development.

Straight “AWS Architects” make less than “full stack developers” and wages for both seem to be stagnating in most of the US. Architects/Team Leads are making more but that’s stagnating too. But good “Implementation Consultants” who can combine both are making more. If you can market your consultants as “Cloud transformation consultants” (Yes I died a little saying that) you can make a lot more.