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Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

nytimes.com

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Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

#11

Post by parondea »

jrowley wrote: post #2

If you are interested in learning more about psychedelics, and their context in 2018, I'd recommend UC Berkeley Professor Michael Pollan's latest book "How to Change Your Mind". It is a really nice, easy to read primer on the topic, and his experience with psychedelics. He approaches the topic with a scientific yet accessible tone, and he asks and answers lots of good questions. Pollan interviews many of the people m…

I just finished the book and would recommend it to those who are interested in the long history of psychedelic research and the future of it. However, I think most of what I took from the book can be captured on the few podcasts he's been interviewed on. Specifically his chats with Tyler Cowen [1] and Kevin Rose [2] were particularly interesting.

[1] https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/michael-pollan-t...

[2] https://www.kevinrose.com/single-post/Michael-Pollan

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

#12

Post by psythrow »

I have a friend who used to be quite involved in the ayahuasca church. He now knows five people from the church who have committed suicide. The fifth just hung himself last weekend. He was 25, and was the son of one of the priestesses in the church. Spent his childhood in the church, being fed ayahuasca regularly.

One of them was also a friend of mine. By the time he killed himself he was clinically insane and should have been hospitalized, sadly the services didn't get to him in time.

I realise this is about psylocibin, but I think its still appropriate here. Psychedelics are no joke.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

#13

Post by 09bjb »

Psilocybin and LSD are on their way to legalization, but the enormous host of compounds in their phenethylamine family might not be so lucky due to a systematic problem with U.S. drug scheduling policy. This family shows enormous potential for treating some of our trickiest mental health / public health problems (addiction, depression, anxiety, OCD, and the list goes on) but the policy for newly discovered phenethylamines and tryptamines seems to be "Schedule first, worry about it later." This slows scientific research down dramatically, research that we need in order to even know in the first place whether a compound might have "high potential for abuse and no known medical potential." If there is medical potential (and in these families at least there usually is), what took days to Schedule will take millions of dollars and years or even decades to reschedule...per compound.

So, while I celebrate the progress being made for a couple of promising compounds with a relatively large base of recognition and support, I'm hoping that I see a more sane approach to drug policy within my lifetime (Portugal seems to be the fashionable example these days).

I'll also second /u/jrowley 's recommendation of Michael Pollan's recent book "How to Change Your Mind" as a good primer, and would recommend the TV show "Hamilton's Pharmacopeia" as another fascinating dive into the subject.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

#14

Post by goodroot »

Psychedelic mushrooms are powerful medicine. They have a psychoactive effect which alters brain chemistry and helps neurological disorder. We can see that in the paper. But then so do anti-depressants.

I believe the key difference between plant medicines like mushrooms, Peyote, Ayahuasca and others and clinical mood altering medicine is within the ecstatic experience. It is one to thing to have a pill lead you to an empirically more "healthy" brain. It is quite another to embark on a deep, introspective vision which provides a narrative to match the chemical benefit.

I volunteer as a guide within Ayahuasca ceremonies in Peru. Many turn to Ayahuasca as a last resort for depression, PTSD, sexual trauma, and much more. I have seen people in ceremony live through what they interpret as a hellish exorcism, an active exploration of their lineage, or a direct confrontation and resolution of their deepest emotional and spiritual trauma. These people often undergo significant positive transformation after the experiences.

These profoundly "real" experiences appear to be essential to the healing process.

We are creatures of story and psychedelics can help write a _most radical_ chapter of recovery.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

#15

Post by yboris »

jrowley wrote: post #2

If you are interested in learning more about psychedelics, and their context in 2018, I'd recommend UC Berkeley Professor Michael Pollan's latest book "How to Change Your Mind". It is a really nice, easy to read primer on the topic, and his experience with psychedelics. He approaches the topic with a scientific yet accessible tone, and he asks and answers lots of good questions. Pollan interviews many of the people m…

I third this recommendation! I listened to it in audio book form -- narrated by the author himself -- a real pleasure!

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

#16

Post by tchrowaway15123 »

Warning: anecdotes ahead.

I would like to add some counterpoint to the otherwise seemingly endless supply of HN enthusiasm for psychedelics.

Personally, I like psychedelics. I have an annual(ish) tradition of tripping somewhere really pretty. I think that the personal growth and emotional... trip is fun and worthwhile.

However, my girlfriend had a bad trip and was scared of large trees for months. And I'd rate my girlfriend as one of the most mentally stable people I have ever met. I am unconvinced that throwing psychedelics at mentally unstable (unhealthy) people is a good idea. We need a lot more research before we start recommending them as medicine.

To that end, I do believe that we should allow researchers greater flexibility to experiment with them because it would be worthwhile to understand more about why psychedelics do what they do.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

#17

Post by Nasrudith »

tibbon wrote: post #8

I don't know how the government can claim with a straight face that these substances have no known medical use, and are harmful. That's the criteria I think for Schedule 1, but there are clearly known uses for them, and the harm is relatively low. I really don't like thinking, "the government just wants to ban dangerous thoughts" but mushrooms - really? Compared to alcohol they are so incredibly safe.

Institutional inertia is one hell of a drug. Even putting aside the sinister motivations people are often very reluctant to change even in the face of major evidence - especially if it undermines their self worth to admit being wrong.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

#18

Post by DenisM »

goodroot wrote: post #14

Psychedelic mushrooms are powerful medicine. They have a psychoactive effect which alters brain chemistry and helps neurological disorder. We can see that in the paper. But then so do anti-depressants. I believe the key difference between plant medicines like mushrooms, Peyote, Ayahuasca and others and clinical mood altering medicine is within the ecstatic experience. It is one to thing to have a pill lead you to an…

How bad are the bad trips? And how often they appear?

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

#19

Post by semireg »

psythrow wrote: post #12

I have a friend who used to be quite involved in the ayahuasca church. He now knows five people from the church who have committed suicide. The fifth just hung himself last weekend. He was 25, and was the son of one of the priestesses in the church. Spent his childhood in the church, being fed ayahuasca regularly. One of them was also a friend of mine. By the time he killed himself he was clinically insane and should…

What is the ayahuasca church? I’m not familiar.

Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Are Closer to Medicinal Use

#20

Post by loceng »

goodroot wrote: post #14

Psychedelic mushrooms are powerful medicine. They have a psychoactive effect which alters brain chemistry and helps neurological disorder. We can see that in the paper. But then so do anti-depressants. I believe the key difference between plant medicines like mushrooms, Peyote, Ayahuasca and others and clinical mood altering medicine is within the ecstatic experience. It is one to thing to have a pill lead you to an…

The "pills" like SSRIs also change the actual function of the brain, not simply flooding it with a certain molecule that mimics; the two honestly shouldn't compared to as equals, though I understand the desire to as one is heavily legal because of the pharma. industrial complex, and the others have been struggling for their place for far too long now.

Context of course is important too, like having a ceremony with a group of people or with things like MDMA - outside of a therapeutic setting with a therapist - of positive environment with dance music, etc of course will prime the brain in certain ways, and trigger certain pathways that won't otherwise be triggered if simply taking a pill that forces a function change (vs. using existing flows and function); contrast a ceremony taking a medicine vs. going to doctor who only sees you in the context of a clinic, speaks with you for maybe 15 minutes, prescribes you a pill, and sends you on your way to maybe check back in a week to see how their experiment is going.

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