Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 148 posts

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#111

Post by Barrin92 »

ghostly_s wrote: post #54
bubblethink wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about preventing dns manipulation attacks. That assumes that a DNS server (like 8.8.8.8) is generally accessible, but an adversary is trying to manipulate the responses. In China, you anyway can't access regular global dns servers. You need to use official dns supported by the government. So the question of dns manipulation is moot.

So that makes it morally consistent...how?

Google's a big business with many divisions and even more people. I don't see why moral consistency is supposed to be expected or of particular interest.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#112

Post by throwwedoct »

tony101 wrote: post #104
bhtru wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a difference to how the NSA does same albeit with a time delay instead of being instantaneous?

The NSA doesn't send people to "reeducation camps" because of their political or religious beliefs.[1] [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/asia/china-uighur-m...

Who needs camps when you can drone strike them? [1]

> In 2014, former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden said in a public debate, “We kill people based on metadata.”

> According to multiple reports and leaks, death-by-metadata could be triggered, without even knowing the target’s name, if too many derogatory checks appear on their profile. “Armed military aged males” exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place can become targets, as can someone “seen to be giving out orders.” Such mathematics-based assassinations have come to be known as “signature strikes.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...!

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#114

Post by samswin »

21 wrote: post #12

This is richly ironic. I had to check that this was not an article from The Onion. Will this tool bypass the censored Google that will be introduced in China? More likely it will automatically report the user to the Chinese government if used in China.

It will tell the user to the chinese government, in a way.

1. All DNS traffic from intra must go through the chinese national firewall. Although the firewall cannot see or tamper the data, it can tell whether it is encrypted.

2. Most DNS traffic are not encrypted. Intra users will be very easy to discover to the firewall, like a flare in the night.

3. One's name is linked to one's IP in china, and encryption alone cannot hide the user IP.

It may work in some other nations. But not china.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#115

Post by jlarocco »

ben_w wrote: post #96
jlarocco wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. Alphabet and Google can't claim to be against censorship while they're profiting from it. They can't have their cake and eat it too. Clearly the only thing Google and Alphabet are "for" is making more money, so there's really no point pretending they have a moral compass guiding them.

Why can’t they make that claim? There are many things in this world that I oppose yet benefit from. I can’t fight every injustice in the world — I don’t know how to, I haven’t got the skills, I don’t have the resources. It’s like a prayer to serenity: Grant me the courage to change what I cannot accept, the serenity to accept what I cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference. Google maybe rich beyond the dr…

> Why can’t they make that claim?

Well, they can claim anything they want. If they want to be consistent and have integrity then they'll make sure their actions align with their claims. Claiming to support privacy while also conceding to China shows they have no integrity and they're only telling people what they want to hear for marketing purposes.

> Google maybe rich beyond the dreams of any single human, but they can’t force the Chinese government to stop thinking like the Chinese government.

Right, but their inability to change Chinese policy doesn't imply that they have to take an active role in helping China's censorship. They could have said, "We're not doing business in China because it conflicts with our 'Don't be evil' policy." Instead, they got rid of that policy and are working with the Chinese government to censor web content.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#116

Post by i_phish_cats »

bad_user wrote: post #87

Good job Google. I'm a very harsh critique of Google due to the threat they pose for privacy, however here they are doing a good thing, along the lines of the public DNS servers they provide, which I know have helped people [1]. Having your requests go through Google is not ideal, however not many people have the capacity to search for better, but more obscure solutions. Also this isn't about privacy, but about worki…

And yet another part of the company is creating a censored version so that the CCP will let them back into china.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#117

Post by thisgoodlife »

bubblethink wrote: post #39
21 wrote: post #12

This is richly ironic. I had to check that this was not an article from The Onion. Will this tool bypass the censored Google that will be introduced in China? More likely it will automatically report the user to the Chinese government if used in China.

This is about preventing dns manipulation attacks. That assumes that a DNS server (like 8.8.8.8) is generally accessible, but an adversary is trying to manipulate the responses. In China, you anyway can't access regular global dns servers. You need to use official dns supported by the government. So the question of dns manipulation is moot.

This is not true. I tried 8.8.8.8 and it worked when I visited China 2 years ago.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#118

Post by lallysingh »

thisgoodlife wrote: post #117
bubblethink wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about preventing dns manipulation attacks. That assumes that a DNS server (like 8.8.8.8) is generally accessible, but an adversary is trying to manipulate the responses. In China, you anyway can't access regular global dns servers. You need to use official dns supported by the government. So the question of dns manipulation is moot.

This is not true. I tried 8.8.8.8 and it worked when I visited China 2 years ago.

Were you on a VPN?

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#119

Post by lallysingh »

zelon88 wrote: post #108
jamescostian wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't like theft. It's more like the law says you can't read certain things, so a printing company adjusts the books they print for the people of that country. Obviously they don't want to censor things, but they also want to profit. They can either be totally censored or partially censored and still make money. Are you asking for them to give up and accept total censorship and forfeit money? If not, what would…

China will steal any technology you put in their country. Not only will they steal it, but they'll use it for whatever they want. Right now China is talking to Google because they lack the technological prerequisites to make their goals happen by themselves. If you want to see a Chinese Google competitor, just let Google get a shoe in the door and wait a couple years. Then when China has what it wants they'll dismiss…

What technology do you think will be on Chinese soil from this?

There's no reason to bring source code over.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#120

Post by x220 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #111
ghostly_s wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that makes it morally consistent...how?

Google's a big business with many divisions and even more people. I don't see why moral consistency is supposed to be expected or of particular interest.

Google and Alphabet have executives that set mission statements. If these executives wanted to, they could easily prioritize ethical conduct and refuse compliance with censorship schemes and oppressive regimes.
Post reply on HN