Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#71

Post by yorwba » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

hackermailman wrote: post #36

The most interesting self-learning platform I've found is expii.com created by Poh-Shen Lo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po-Shen_Loh It feeds you exercises and judging by your answers determines if you need more practice or not using an Elo rating system https://v1.expii.com/grandmaster though I get the argument of having students pay for certs ergo they actually complete the courses, this other method seems to me to…

Systems that keep track of your learning progress and automatically schedule exercises are probably the future of learning, but I'm not sure whether the approach taking by expii.com is good enough yet.

I did a few calculus questions and noticed two aspects which I think could be improved:

1) the multiple-choice question format makes questions easier than they appear. I solved a differential-equation question by differentiating all 4 possible solutions, I would have been unable to solve it otherwise.

2) Most questions require combining several pieces of knowledge to arrive at a solution, but the Elo rating only keeps track of a score for the type of question. If you mess up a chain-rule question by misremembering the derivative of the inverse cosecant function, then you should get more questions about the inverse cosecant function rather than the chain rule, and vice versa.

That said, changing those two things would require a lot of work, so I understand why it is the way it is.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#72

Post by stretchwithme » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

Wouldn't it be cool if all the online ads you see featured topics you want to learn? Repetition is the mother of retention.

Might be worth even if you had to pay a fee for it and take tests to set it up. Or maybe interstitial ads could handle the testing.

Learning would be constant but not require a big time commitment. It's integrated into your leisure activities. Nor would it be easy to set aside.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#73

Post by anonymous5133 » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

heurist wrote: post #33

I don't think MOOCS are the solution unless utilized in schools. The role of a school teacher working along with a MOOC would be more motivational and disciplinary, which is what most teachers seem to specialize in anyway. Separate the content from the distribution. Only problem is when every student is learning exactly the same things and having no room for thinking out of the box, but again that pretty much already…

IMO, I think MOOCs will be the future of education going forward. The simple fact that a MOOC can deliver on-demand education for basically nothing on a per-student basis is significant. You are looking at MOOCs based on what they are now, which I agree, are generally low quality, not comprehensive and lack sufficient tools for students to self-study. Overtime, these issues will be worked out. New tools will be created that will allow MOOCs to deliver higher quality of education. I could even see MOOCs being superior to classroom education because a MOOC has the added benefit of having computer based algorithms which could be designed to analyze student data and adapt the course or give precise help to the student on-demand.

I think solutions could be created to solve the "lack of motivation" issue.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#74

Post by fredsir » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #65

fredsir wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never learn voluntarily Are there nothing you do out of passion? I'm sure there is. You got any hobbies? I'm sure you learn about that voluntarily.

No hobbies that require learning. My free time is consumed by exercise and just spending time with my wife. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy development and learning more about software development/architecture, but I focus that on what’s marketable.

> My free time is consumed by exercise and just spending time with my wife.

Plenty of learning involved with that. Spending time with you wife means constantly learning about her, and about you and her in tandem. Exercising means constantly learning about your body and the exercises you do, and the combination of those parts. Of course, it is possible to spend time with someone as well as exercising without learning anything, but it seems you a voluntarily involved in both, so my guess is that you are not resisting learning but are instead voluntarily learning :)

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#75

Post by anonymous5133 » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:28 PM UTC

clintonb wrote: post #61

perseusprime11 wrote: post #14

7% completion rates in a 100K MOOC is still 7K students which is far greater than any traditional brick and mortar enrollments.

Disclaimer: I am a former engineer at edX. Bingo! Although the completion rate was low—single digit—more students completed the the first 6.002x offering on edX than have completed the course at MIT in the entire history the course has been offered. As others have mentioned, the completion rate will always be low for numerous reasons. However, if you compare the raw number of students completing the courses, and the…

IMO, I think we need to get over this whole idea of "completion rates". Honestly, who cares how many students took the class. The only important metric is how many students obtained a comprehensive understanding of the subject after taking the course. We need side-by-side examinations to really see which is superior.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#76

Post by heurist » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:32 PM UTC

anonymous5133 wrote: post #73

heurist wrote: post #33

I don't think MOOCS are the solution unless utilized in schools. The role of a school teacher working along with a MOOC would be more motivational and disciplinary, which is what most teachers seem to specialize in anyway. Separate the content from the distribution. Only problem is when every student is learning exactly the same things and having no room for thinking out of the box, but again that pretty much already…

IMO, I think MOOCs will be the future of education going forward. The simple fact that a MOOC can deliver on-demand education for basically nothing on a per-student basis is significant. You are looking at MOOCs based on what they are now, which I agree, are generally low quality, not comprehensive and lack sufficient tools for students to self-study. Overtime, these issues will be worked out. New tools will be creat…

What solutions though? Students, especially kids, still need some kick in the butt to actually do the work required to learn. I don't see MOOCs ever accomplishing that unless someone somehow finds a way to make an addictive and legitimately educational computer game that students are REQUIRED to play. Or some medication that helps students focus and absorb information without ruining their brains. I agree MOOCs can deliver superior quality education, but it will be a long time before they are motiviating in their own rights. And a lot of motivation in school comes from being near peers and having human connection with teachers and other supervisors. MOOCs fail that requirement almost by definition.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#77

Post by bcheung » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:35 PM UTC

frv103 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure that course completion percentage is necessarily the best metric to be drawing conclusions from. I will often sign up for MOOCs and courses for a single talk, chapter, or topic that I'm interested in with no intention of actually completing the course. I wonder I'm an outlier in this regard or if this approach is much more common than the author of this article realizes.

Agreed. I notice that many MOOCs have this academic mentality that something must be complete and a certificate earned. I could really give a damn about a certificate. Gaining the knowledge I need is all I care about. Udacity really makes me mad when they remove courses that I paid for if I don't do every little exercise (even the ones that are so horribly designed and have little learning value in them).

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#78

Post by SonnyWortzik » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

frv103 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure that course completion percentage is necessarily the best metric to be drawing conclusions from. I will often sign up for MOOCs and courses for a single talk, chapter, or topic that I'm interested in with no intention of actually completing the course. I wonder I'm an outlier in this regard or if this approach is much more common than the author of this article realizes.

quite common. Many of my colleagues including myself will sign up for a course online only because we saw an interesting topic in one of their modules. We go straight for the module, learn what we want and move on, never complete the course.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#79

Post by heurist » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:40 PM UTC

madcaptenor wrote: post #55

heurist wrote: post #33

I don't think MOOCS are the solution unless utilized in schools. The role of a school teacher working along with a MOOC would be more motivational and disciplinary, which is what most teachers seem to specialize in anyway. Separate the content from the distribution. Only problem is when every student is learning exactly the same things and having no room for thinking out of the box, but again that pretty much already…

So basically the MOOC plays the role of the textbook.

Not just the textbook, but the teacher. The current teacher role will be supplementary and act more like a psychologist or counselor in keeping students on track, providing more one-on-one support, encouraging movement and release of physical energy, guiding students toward their own goals rather than dictating requirements, helping students recognize the value of learning, sending disruptive students to a separate (possibly more physically oriented) workspace, recognizing and helping students through mental health and other issues. Using MOOCs, content can be swapped out like battery packs. The counseling role is uniquely human and can become much deeper service than is currently available to students.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#80

Post by DelightOne » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

j45 wrote: post #24

I've been a technologist in academic and industry online education for almost 20 years. Life is not linear. Why are traditional education and MOOCs linear and monolothic? Career paths are no longer linear, but so much education continues to be linear. The pace of innovation adoption in education is very slow, partially due to the lack of technological abilities of leadership and management in education. There is ofte…

> Self-directed learning is going to be a real thing, because it already is. We search constantly for answers on mobile, to construct new abilities.

The current options are abysmal, sadly.