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Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

blog.brainstation.io

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Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#61

Post by clintonb »

perseusprime11 wrote: post #14

7% completion rates in a 100K MOOC is still 7K students which is far greater than any traditional brick and mortar enrollments.

Disclaimer: I am a former engineer at edX.

Bingo! Although the completion rate was low—single digit—more students completed the the first 6.002x offering on edX than have completed the course at MIT in the entire history the course has been offered. As others have mentioned, the completion rate will always be low for numerous reasons. However, if you compare the raw number of students completing the courses, and the costs paid by students, MOOCs come out ahead.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#62

Post by anonymous5133 »

augbog wrote: post #58

I feel this article doesn't understand what "learning at your own pace" means. Yeah sure you can say "learners need this environment, this attendance, etc" but you're falling into the trap of what we have right now -- we think we know what's best for people to learn. And while true for many people they definitely WILL learn with established practices, not everyone will learn as well as they could.

100% I agree with you. The student should be the final decider on what type of course to take. From what I've seen when I ask people about MOOCs, lots of people say they want classroom environment but when you tell them about what if the MOOC is free. Then they all switch to MOOC because they figure they can just hire a tutor if they really need the human help.

Most of the people I see making that argument are "education experts" who are extremely arrogant. My prediction is they made these arguments because they feel threatened by the potential that MOOCs have. If MOOCs become very high quality then there is the very real threat that people will start asking if the preference for physical classroom time still has value.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#63

Post by scarface74 »

boojums wrote: post #57
scarface74 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the purpose of the actual certificate? As someone who has done dozens of interviews - I’m not a manager, but for about two years I was responsible for hiring and I’ve sat as part of a panel- most people don’t take most certificates seriously. Some, including myself, take it as a slightly negative signal. I’ve seen too many paper tigers. But then again, except for entry level positions, few hiring managers care…

If you don't mind me asking, why did you want to change from bit twiddling to enterprise?

Money and optionality.

10 years ago after staying at one company for 9 years and before that at another for three doing mostly C and C++ with a smattering of VB6, Perl, and JavaScript, I looked at where most of the jobs were in my local market - a major metropolitan area with a lot of Enterprise Java/.Net and web jobs.

I had two offers one for $20K more than I was making as a C++ developer and one as a high entry level .Net developer paying only $7K more (yeah wage compression is real). I took the second offer. I knew in 3 years my options were going to be limited for C jobs.

10 years and 4 additional jobs later and making $70K more, it was the right decision. There are very few jobs making what I make now in my local area for C developers, plenty for “Enterprise” developers/architects.

Going back on topic about certificates, I’m again at the same crossroads. I got to where I am being mostly a backend developer/architect with very little modern front end experience. Also, in my local market, “full stack web developers” are becoming a commodity and make less than I do now.

So along with learning $frontend_framework_of_the_week just to check off the box, I’m working on AWS certs, since they are still marketable and the only way I can make the next jump without going into management is by being an overpriced “implementation consultant”.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#64

Post by vezycash »

philipov wrote: post #60
vezycash wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it's the length of individual videos that matter. I prefer those with 4-7 minutes minutes per video. I've noticed that many long videos can be much shorter with minimal editing to remove unnecessary pauses, uhmms...

I'm the opposite. When searching for lectures on youtube, I filter to remove anything shorter than 20 minutes and then ignore anything that's still under an hour.

On platforms like udemy, the good courses range from 1.5 hours to as much as 97 hours. For this length, the shorter the better for individual videos.

For YouTube playlists, the same. However, for one-off youtube tutorial videos, I do long videos as well.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#65

Post by scarface74 »

fredsir wrote: post #54
scarface74 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never learn voluntarily. Anything I learn is either for my current job, or the next job I’m looking to get - whether I am actively looking or not. For instance, I’m not going to learn the intricacies of Rust to scratch an itch if I see that there are no jobs for it. Does that make me mercenary and show a lack of “passion”? Probably.

> I never learn voluntarily Are there nothing you do out of passion? I'm sure there is. You got any hobbies? I'm sure you learn about that voluntarily.

No hobbies that require learning. My free time is consumed by exercise and just spending time with my wife.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy development and learning more about software development/architecture, but I focus that on what’s marketable.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#66

Post by dougmwne »

MOOCs make explicit something that has always been implicit for me about education. In the absence of the herd, the authority figure, the degree, the deadlines with teeth and all the other motivational tricks to get me to learn the content, we're just left with the content itself.

Is it great content? Does it inspire my curiosity? Is it memorable? Does it teach me things I can apply? Does it add layers of needless complexity? Is it an exercise in abstract curriculum box-ticking? Is it an ideology in wrapping paper?

I think the gap between 100% and the actual MOOC completion rate also represents the gap between our ideal of education was and what it actually is. Without all the academic window dressing, most people just learn the parts they want. The pedagogs doth protest too much, methinks.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#68

Post by anonymous5133 »

MrEfficiency wrote: post #22
scarface74 wrote: post #2

I've learned everything I know for the last 20+ years after graduating from college at my own pace. I'm sure that's true for most developers.

When you have a project, you learn by necessity. When you are taking a course to expand your abilities, you learn voluntarily. I find learning via projects is the fastest and most useful. I am unsure if I will take courses ever again.

I think you need a combination of both. Just working on random projects isn't feasible all the time. I've worked on projects where I simply did not know how to complete said project and googling didn't help much. There is real value from taking a voluntary formal course that is comprehensive. It will give you the basic foundation to master the subject. You can use projects to refine your skill.

Re: Why we need more than “learn at your own pace” online learning

#69

Post by rootusrootus »

aleksei wrote: post #50
zerkten wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, MOOCs do less handholding (aka: forcing adults to behave like adults) than traditional university courses. It's interesting how much this varies globally. In the UK I had zero hand-holding for my undergraduate degree. In the last two years of high school there would be constant reminders that this would be coming. You'd turn up to lectures, occasionally have coursework that at most counted for 30% of the overa…

Yes, the university life portrayed in American tv shows is also quite unfamiliar to Nordics. Your experience mirrors mine in Finland. You could enrol for a course and only turn up for the exams. No one cared whether you attended the lectures or the exercise sessions, you were simply expected to be able to apply the material by the end of the course. However it depended heavily on faculty or even field. I think the hu…

I went to a state university in Oregon...

> You could enrol for a course and only turn up for the exams

And aside from a few exceptions, this is exactly how I approached my studies. I'd show up on day 1, the day of each midterm, and the last day of class before the final exam.

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