Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone • Hacker News Board

Re: Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone

#71

Post by tariandbari » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 3:42 PM UTC

PlutoIsAPlanet wrote: post #33

tariandbari wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if the OP of this thread is part of the antizionism camp. I can only assert that he is an idiot (He looks at the map and cannot see the long border that is shared between Gaza and Egypt) BUT antisemitism == antizionism as it simply design to strip Jews from their own homeland. Antizionism is not part of a global anti nationality movement that says "Let's abolish the 57 Islamic countries, the 21 Arab coun…

I don't think anyone who claims to be anti-zionist apart from the far-right of the spectrum calls for the destruction of Israel. The "homeland" reason is stupid. Religion should have no say in politics, including the founding of states.

[dead]

Re: Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone

#72

Post by georgehdd » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 3:49 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #36

padraic7a wrote: post #3

That's an incredible article. It must have taken some amazing mental gymnastics to talk about the situation in Gaza and Palestine without laying any responsibility at the feet of Israel. Instead the Israeli stance is noted as being the same as Egypt, or the same as the EU. Lets be clear, Israel's behaviour marks it out as an exception internationally. Israel has turned Gaza into an open air prison. Israel's blockade…

> Israel's blockade contrvene's international law. I'm not an expert in international law, but blaming a country for protecting it's citizens from being bombed into oblivion is just nuts. The only thing this "blockade" is intended to do is to stop Hamas from building rockets. Everything that cannot be used to build rockets goes in and out through any crossing every day of the week.

That's factually incorrect. There are things that go in/out of Gaza but in very limited supply. The blockade (why is it in quotes?) was created more than 10 years ago for political reasons as a way to pressure the people of Gaza to turn against Hamas. Ever since, it achieved the exact opposite. To remind you, ~2 million people have been living under this siege since then.

Don't fool your self - putting 2 million people under siege is not self protection.

PS - the US definition for terrorism is "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.". Just saying.

Re: Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone

#73

Post by cmurf » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

beagle3 wrote: post #51

padraic7a wrote: post #3

That's an incredible article. It must have taken some amazing mental gymnastics to talk about the situation in Gaza and Palestine without laying any responsibility at the feet of Israel. Instead the Israeli stance is noted as being the same as Egypt, or the same as the EU. Lets be clear, Israel's behaviour marks it out as an exception internationally. Israel has turned Gaza into an open air prison. Israel's blockade…

The mental gymnastics here are required for the other side too, e.g. elections were last held in Gaza in 2006 or so; it's not remotely a democracy or republic, control is maintained by violence, see e.g. [0]. Every side of this conflict is a villain, and depending how far back you want to go, that may include the British, who created war and instability where they pulled out, in Palestine and in India/Pakistan (smart…

That ignores the conflict is between the one of the world's greatest military powers versus a civilian population, slowly being forced to self-dispossess with zero freedom of movement, makes the situation worse than bantustans. One side is a signatory to the Geneva Conventions, and those conventions clearly make occupation and colonization of occupied land illegal. And this was the plan from the very beginning in the words of their own founders: Jabotinsky's The Iron Wall (1923). Why wouldn't you take them at their word? And how hasn't that colonial ideology, in retrospect, predicted exactly where Israel-Palestine is at today?

Re: Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone

#74

Post by beagle3 » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 4:25 PM UTC

FactolSarin wrote: post #69

beagle3 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mental gymnastics here are required for the other side too, e.g. elections were last held in Gaza in 2006 or so; it's not remotely a democracy or republic, control is maintained by violence, see e.g. [0]. Every side of this conflict is a villain, and depending how far back you want to go, that may include the British, who created war and instability where they pulled out, in Palestine and in India/Pakistan (smart…

Gaza doesn't have true autonomy, though. The people of Gaza can't actually vote in the elections that matter to them, i.e. those of Israel. Israel controls the airspace, the ports, and much of the land while claiming they've "disengaged." There's no basis for a free government when the people can't exercise any kind of sovereignty.

I fail to understand your reasoning: the people of Gaza voted Hamas in, much increasing the intensity of the conflict; Hamas then essentially canceled elections - guaranteeing that no one will try to reduce the conflict.

And somehow, that is of no consequence because they cannot vote in the Israeli elections?

And yet, somehow, before Hamas, and still in the places where Fatah rules (and elections were not canceled) the situation is infinitely better.

Re: Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone

#75

Post by beagle3 » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

cmurf wrote: post #73

beagle3 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mental gymnastics here are required for the other side too, e.g. elections were last held in Gaza in 2006 or so; it's not remotely a democracy or republic, control is maintained by violence, see e.g. [0]. Every side of this conflict is a villain, and depending how far back you want to go, that may include the British, who created war and instability where they pulled out, in Palestine and in India/Pakistan (smart…

That ignores the conflict is between the one of the world's greatest military powers versus a civilian population, slowly being forced to self-dispossess with zero freedom of movement, makes the situation worse than bantustans. One side is a signatory to the Geneva Conventions, and those conventions clearly make occupation and colonization of occupied land illegal. And this was the plan from the very beginning in the…

Jabotinaky is from one faction, not the ruling one for the first 30 years or so of Israel’s history. Many disagreed with him even back then.

After the Oslo accords, for a while, the Palestinian population had prosperity and there was a mutually agreed path forward. There were dissenting voices on both sides. Those in Israel assisinated PM Rabin. Those in the Gazan side elected Hamas democratically (and then lost the ability to vote ... happens when you vote for a non Democratic Party and they win). It is easy to lay all blame at Israel for being a military power. But the Palestinian side deserves a lot of the blame.

Also, don’t poke a military power if you don’t want to be bombed. “Civillian population” doesn’t build attack tunnels, rocket factories, train commandos, etc. I don’t blame them for trying, but that comes with consequences like getting bombed. Hamas is not wearing uniforms but they are guerilla / army. Not civillian.

Re: Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone

#76

Post by maratd » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

FactolSarin wrote: post #70

maratd wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead the Israeli stance is noted as being the same as Egypt Because it is.

Egypt doesn't control Gaza airspace or ports. Israel does.

No, but they do control their border with Gaza, which is as locked down as those ports you mention.

Re: Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone

#77

Post by deletemenow » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

okyougotmenow wrote: post #38

padraic7a wrote: post #3

That's an incredible article. It must have taken some amazing mental gymnastics to talk about the situation in Gaza and Palestine without laying any responsibility at the feet of Israel. Instead the Israeli stance is noted as being the same as Egypt, or the same as the EU. Lets be clear, Israel's behaviour marks it out as an exception internationally. Israel has turned Gaza into an open air prison. Israel's blockade…

Really jogs the noggin' as to why this particular country receives the preferential treatment it does on the international stage in spite of actions that would have any other country sanctioned or bombed to smithereens. I can't quite figure it out! It's also pretty interesting how this comment was able to draw out so many purely organic defensive comments, more quickly than even a thread critical of China would.

[dead]

Re: Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone

#78

Post by deletemenow » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:36 PM UTC

firic wrote: post #25

sgift wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the moment the 'Great Satan' stops to control all flow of goods into and out of the Gaza. It's easy to say Israel has withdrawn when all they did was move a few kilometers further out.

What would you recommend Israel do when Hamas's charter literally says that they what to destroy Israel and the Jews? Hamas is Gaza's elected party and letting them import weapons is very bad for Israeli civilians.

It would be great if Israel was wiped off the map. No more conflict, no more need for america to give billions in aid, not as many jews subverting nations. Win, win, win.

If only we could remove all the jews from america, put them in israel then wipe it off the earth, that would be a real solution to the problem.

Re: Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone

#79

Post by dingoegret » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

beagle3 wrote: post #51

padraic7a wrote: post #3

That's an incredible article. It must have taken some amazing mental gymnastics to talk about the situation in Gaza and Palestine without laying any responsibility at the feet of Israel. Instead the Israeli stance is noted as being the same as Egypt, or the same as the EU. Lets be clear, Israel's behaviour marks it out as an exception internationally. Israel has turned Gaza into an open air prison. Israel's blockade…

The mental gymnastics here are required for the other side too, e.g. elections were last held in Gaza in 2006 or so; it's not remotely a democracy or republic, control is maintained by violence, see e.g. [0]. Every side of this conflict is a villain, and depending how far back you want to go, that may include the British, who created war and instability where they pulled out, in Palestine and in India/Pakistan (smart…

Its an open air prison under daily siege from Israel and the first out of your mouth is hurr durr democracy

Re: Gaza: Coding in a conflict zone

#80

Post by dingoegret » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 6:32 PM UTC

beagle3 wrote: post #74

FactolSarin wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza doesn't have true autonomy, though. The people of Gaza can't actually vote in the elections that matter to them, i.e. those of Israel. Israel controls the airspace, the ports, and much of the land while claiming they've "disengaged." There's no basis for a free government when the people can't exercise any kind of sovereignty.

I fail to understand your reasoning: the people of Gaza voted Hamas in, much increasing the intensity of the conflict; Hamas then essentially canceled elections - guaranteeing that no one will try to reduce the conflict. And somehow, that is of no consequence because they cannot vote in the Israeli elections? And yet, somehow, before Hamas, and still in the places where Fatah rules (and elections were not canceled) t…

I fail to understand your reasoning. There is no free movement or freedom at all in Gaza thanks to Israeli siege and daily bombardments. There can be no sovereignty under these conditions. The antecedent of a previous election doesn't just suddenly cancel out the precedent or current situation.