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Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

wi-fi.org

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Re: Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

#21

Post by kalleboo »

shmerl wrote: post #18

Looks like penetration and range decrease with each new WiFi generation.

Not really. There's only the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz split.

And the problem with "long range" is that everyone who doesn't live in a detached suburban house now has massive noise on the 2.4 GHz band from their 20 neighbors so that everyone gets terrible speeds. The weaker penetration/range of 5 GHz solves that by right-sizing everyone's network.

edit: researching the updates in 802.11ax, it looks like Wi-Fi 6 will bring the improvements from 802.11ac to 2.4 GHz as well, so it will actually improve performance for people who need range as well. It also has guard interval improvements for outdoor environments.

Re: Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

#22

Post by lostlogin »

kbenson wrote: post #10
kevin_b_er wrote: post #3

Wi-Fi Alliance is naming the not-yet-complete IEEE 802.11ax standard as Wi-Fi 6, with ac being 5, and n being 4. One can guess then a is supposed to 1, b as 2, and g as 3, but this isn't mentioned anywhere I can see. As far as I can tell, all of these numbers are new. At least this naming is a good deal clearer than HDMI's confusing version and feature mix or USB's Speed names. What isn't clear is how much control th…

> Wi-Fi Alliance is naming the not-yet-complete IEEE 802.11ax standard as Wi-Fi 6, with ac being 5, and n being 4. One can guess then a is supposed to 1, b as 2, and g as 3, but this isn't mentioned anywhere I can see. Oh, I'm so happy it's a number that seems to correspond to something (as long as the next one is 7 or 8 or some integer slightly larger than 6). I look at wifi tech so rarely that I've mostly skipped a…

.

Re: Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

#23

Post by kalleboo »

mtgx wrote: post #4

802.11ax is 802.11n's true successor and I hope it will be adopted quickly by everyone. 802.11ac for the 5GHz band was a faux successor, in my opinion, as you couldn't use it in the same scenarios. It came with some higher performance, but with major compromises in reach for a typical home. Wi-Fi 6/802.11ax should last for a while, so I hope the Wi-Fi Alliance starts focusing on an actual long-range standard that's m…

> works in the unlicensed spectrum and for distances of 1km or longer

Looking at the shitshow that is the 2.4 GHz band, what are the mass-market uses of unlicensed 1km range in the 1kbps bandwidth range? IoT?

Re: Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

#24

Post by cstrahan »

lostlogin wrote: post #22
kbenson wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wi-Fi Alliance is naming the not-yet-complete IEEE 802.11ax standard as Wi-Fi 6, with ac being 5, and n being 4. One can guess then a is supposed to 1, b as 2, and g as 3, but this isn't mentioned anywhere I can see. Oh, I'm so happy it's a number that seems to correspond to something (as long as the next one is 7 or 8 or some integer slightly larger than 6). I look at wifi tech so rarely that I've mostly skipped a…

.

What's the "oops" about?

Re: Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

#25

Post by joemi »

FINALLY. Confusing version numbering always annoys me, and wifi's "n", "ac", "g", etc version names (combined with the easy to get wrong "802.11") have been one of the biggest offenders for a while. When a version number is a marketable metric, it should not be confusing.

Others notable offenders that jump to mind: the Xbox range (Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Xbox One X), iPhone SE and XR (since they break the pattern all the rest fit in).

Re: Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

#26

Post by kbirkeland »

kalleboo wrote: post #21
shmerl wrote: post #18

Looks like penetration and range decrease with each new WiFi generation.

Not really. There's only the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz split. And the problem with "long range" is that everyone who doesn't live in a detached suburban house now has massive noise on the 2.4 GHz band from their 20 neighbors so that everyone gets terrible speeds. The weaker penetration/range of 5 GHz solves that by right-sizing everyone's network. edit: researching the updates in 802.11ax, it looks like Wi-Fi 6 will bring th…

The larger problem with the 2.4 GHz ISM band is the lack of non-overlapping channels along with only one station being able to transmit at a time per channel (in pre 802.11ax). There are only three non-overlapping 20 MHz channels in the 2.4 GHz unlicensed spectrum, where 5 GHz spectrum has about 21 (although some require active radar avoidance).

Re: Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

#27

Post by kingbirdy »

colanderman wrote: post #11
kevin_b_er wrote: post #3

Wi-Fi Alliance is naming the not-yet-complete IEEE 802.11ax standard as Wi-Fi 6, with ac being 5, and n being 4. One can guess then a is supposed to 1, b as 2, and g as 3, but this isn't mentioned anywhere I can see. As far as I can tell, all of these numbers are new. At least this naming is a good deal clearer than HDMI's confusing version and feature mix or USB's Speed names. What isn't clear is how much control th…

Hm, I would expect 802.11-1997 to be 1. Is that 0? Or does it share a number with b, because they're the same technology? Or is it 1, and a and g share a number because they're the same technology? Or do a and b share a number because they were released simultaneously? (This is, of course, a Very Important Question.)

I think this is why they didn't give the numbers for the early versions

Re: Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

#28

Post by wlesieutre »

shmerl wrote: post #18

Looks like penetration and range decrease with each new WiFi generation.

I'd rather people used multi-base wifi mesh networks to increase their coverage instead of one long range transmitter.

Single long range base stations might be great if you have a house and distance from your neighbors, but it's terrible for people with denser living arrangements.

Re: Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

#29

Post by dev_dull »

From Wikipedi:

>Though the nominal data rate is just 37% higher than IEEE 802.11ac, the new amendment is expected to achieve a 4× increase to user throughput due to more efficient spectrum utilization.

>IEEE 802.11ax is due to be publicly released sometime in 2019.[2] Devices were presented at CES 2018 that showed a top speed of 11 Gbit/s.[3]

Sounds good but with limited practical value while broadband speeds stay so limited in home. For businesses this would make a big difference (for example editing HD video over WiFi).

Re: Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6

#30

Post by DiabloD3 »

garmaine wrote: post #14
mtgx wrote: post #4

802.11ax is 802.11n's true successor and I hope it will be adopted quickly by everyone. 802.11ac for the 5GHz band was a faux successor, in my opinion, as you couldn't use it in the same scenarios. It came with some higher performance, but with major compromises in reach for a typical home. Wi-Fi 6/802.11ax should last for a while, so I hope the Wi-Fi Alliance starts focusing on an actual long-range standard that's m…

WiMax?

WiMax is an LTE alternative designed by an IEEE 802 committee. It is designed for last mile delivery and also meets the requirements to be considered a 4G and 5G protocol.

Although technically superior to LTE, phone companies (outside of Sprint, in the US at least) chose not to deploy it as it was not based on existing protocols (GSM and CDMA), even though that isn't an actual legitimate reason, as "true" LTE requires VoLTE deployment, which phone companies refused to do until forced to; VoLTE-enabled handsets perform a lot better than their pre-VoLTE or VoLTE-disabled siblings purely because of not needing to waste valuable spectrum on 3G connections, allowing that band to be reassigned to a 4G radio on the tower.

On top of the VoLTE debacle, companies invested in the GSM and CDMA monopoly tried to claim WiMax did not perform well at long distances, the same distances that LTE does not work well with today (found frequently in rural areas in the US, or similarly in areas heavily shadowed by hills or tall buildings); however the adoption of 600/700mhz to fill in those gaps (plus the forced adoption of VoLTE to improve spectrum usage) has proven that to be false.

LTE in areas that are partly covered by existing bands, with the gaps filled in by 600/700mhz, have finally caught up to WiMax in real world testing.

Interestingly, Asia has adopted WiMax heavily but may be switching to LTE in the future for 5G deployment, even though WiMax beat LTE-A to the commercial gigabit deployment milestone, due to these continued misconceptions. Africa's few networks that were WiMAX are (or have already) switched to LTE (driving up the cost, and lowering the reliability of their networks).

The one place WiMax survived in the US was fixed broadband links (as this is what WiMax was originally designed for, until it merged with Korea's WiBro spec more than a decade ago), but that seems to be finally being replaced in favor with LTE-A's fixed profiles.

WiMax will probably beat LTE to working gigabit deployments, although you'll need to live in Asia for this to be relevant to you.

WiMax is not related to WiFi; although the actual underlying technology of all standards are rapidly converging, they are designed for different purposes.

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