Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap • Hacker News Board

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#211

Post by wpietri » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 4:31 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #149

wpietri wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an unedited opinion piece [1] from somebody who works for an antifeminist organization [2]. If that's what you count as proof, then maybe consider you're not being objective here. [1] https://www.cjr.org/innovations/newsrooms_boost_traffic.php and also https://www.joshsteimle.com/writing/how-being-a-forbes-contr... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Women%27s_Forum

Can you dispute the claims made? I grabbed the first Google result but there are many. I can’t find a single piece of data that says women are paid 70% of men for the same job. Can you?

You're seriously asking me to do free research for the guy who started with an opinion and uncritically posted the first Google hit that agreed with his position? Why would that be a good use of my time?

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#212

Post by wpietri » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 4:36 PM UTC

zimablue wrote: post #118

wpietri wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one way to look at it, as if children are some sort of luxury good like a BMW or a labradoodle. The other way to look at it is that all adults were once children, so anything we do to support all children is fair. I think the flaw with your framing is it's essentially ahistorical. The only way we all got here is by having ancestors. We all consumed quite a lot of resources getting to adulthood. If you're all t…

There are two big problems with your argument. One: Your parents taking time off benefits them a lot more than you. It might benefit you a bit but it doesn't benefit you to see your dad from 0-3 months and not your mum, you're too young to know. People assume that it's a big benefit but actually I'd imagine having your parents somewhat around from the ages of 1-3 is far more important than constantly around from 0-1.…

Oh, well if your best evidence is you imagining things, you can see how I'm not going to invest a lot in this reply.

I'll clear up one misunderstanding, though. The point isn't that one should be in favor of the particular conditions of one's birth. It's that one should be in favor of the continued existence of humanity, and do so such that the conditions for future humans are at least as good. Basically, Rawls' veil of ignorance.

By the way, I don't think your misunderstanding was an honest one. If you get to the point that you're suggesting your opponents must be pro-rape, maybe that's a sign you're too wound up to have a good discussion.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#213

Post by malvosenior » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 12:15 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #211

malvosenior wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you dispute the claims made? I grabbed the first Google result but there are many. I can’t find a single piece of data that says women are paid 70% of men for the same job. Can you?

You're seriously asking me to do free research for the guy who started with an opinion and uncritically posted the first Google hit that agreed with his position? Why would that be a good use of my time?

I’ve already done the research, but you don’t seem to believe me so I’m telling you to go look for yourself. The “wage gap” is not a thing and it’s inevitable people are going to tell you that if you try to promote it.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#214

Post by wpietri » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #213

wpietri wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're seriously asking me to do free research for the guy who started with an opinion and uncritically posted the first Google hit that agreed with his position? Why would that be a good use of my time?

I’ve already done the research, but you don’t seem to believe me so I’m telling you to go look for yourself. The “wage gap” is not a thing and it’s inevitable people are going to tell you that if you try to promote it.

If you have done the research, then a) why did you cite an unreviewed opinion piece as your only evidence, and b) why did you ask me to do the work of disputing your claims instead of just providing the evidence?

I obviously have looked and do believe it's a thing. Even individual CEOs discover it's a thing within their companies. For example, Salesforce: https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes/the-ceo-of-salesforce-f...

If it didn't exist, it's certainly surprising that companies keep finding it internally and correcting it.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#215

Post by malvosenior » Wed, Oct 03, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #214

malvosenior wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve already done the research, but you don’t seem to believe me so I’m telling you to go look for yourself. The “wage gap” is not a thing and it’s inevitable people are going to tell you that if you try to promote it.

If you have done the research, then a) why did you cite an unreviewed opinion piece as your only evidence, and b) why did you ask me to do the work of disputing your claims instead of just providing the evidence? I obviously have looked and do believe it's a thing. Even individual CEOs discover it's a thing within their companies. For example, Salesforce: https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes/the-ceo-of-salesforce-f..…

That's a nice bit of PR but if you look at Salesforce's old blog, you'll see there was no gender pay gap:

"Our assessment showed that we needed to adjust some salaries—for both men and women. Approximately six percent of employees required a salary adjustment, and roughly the same number of women and men were impacted. Salesforce has spent nearly $3 million dollars to eliminate statistically significant differences in pay."

https://www.salesforce.com/blog/2016/03/equality-at-salesfor...