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Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

techcrunch.com

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Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#71

Post by sharcerer »

r3bl wrote: post #66
sharcerer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Jigsaw has a good record of making tools which work for the oppressed sections or in areas of cybersecurity/censorship etc. Good work must be appreciated. I don't think any other Big Co. has a division dedicated to solving such specific problems. Yeah, the China bit is really saddening/irritating. They're gonna crush their own legacy.

Don't forget about the Project Zero team! Regardless of my privacy concerns regarding Google and other Alphabet-owned businesses, Jigsaw and Project Zero teams deserve to be praised by anyone who gives a shit about privacy/security.

Project Zero is the reason I regard Google's security as one of the best (possibly the best). They haven't had any major/minor leak, IIRC, which is a huge deal. I mean even if 1 data leak occurred in the next 2 years, I wouldn't be that pissed off (T&C Apply). Accomplishments of these 2 teams deserve more mention.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#72

Post by bhtru »

xg15 wrote: post #61
bun_at_work wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few things: 1) This tool is made by an Alphabet owned company (Jigsaw), not Google, another Alphabet owned company. The companies will have different missions, even if profits flow the same direction. 2) Venezuela doesn't have a huge market where Google is blocked by a nation-wide firewall. 3) China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service wo…

> China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service works if they want to make money there. So if the Chinese demand they get real-time access to all information Google has stored about anyone, or Google gets banned from China, they should do that too?

Is there a difference to how the NSA does same albeit with a time delay instead of being instantaneous?

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#73

Post by guelo »

bun_at_work wrote: post #29
philip1209 wrote: post #19

These dual standards for censorship annoy me. Google on Venezuelan censoring: bad, fight it Google on Chinese censoring: complicit, support it

Just a few things: 1) This tool is made by an Alphabet owned company (Jigsaw), not Google, another Alphabet owned company. The companies will have different missions, even if profits flow the same direction. 2) Venezuela doesn't have a huge market where Google is blocked by a nation-wide firewall. 3) China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service wo…

> if they want to make money there.

That's the point. Google is willing to throw out their supposed principles in order to make money.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#75

Post by [deleted] »

bhtru wrote: post #72
xg15 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service works if they want to make money there. So if the Chinese demand they get real-time access to all information Google has stored about anyone, or Google gets banned from China, they should do that too?

Is there a difference to how the NSA does same albeit with a time delay instead of being instantaneous?

[deleted]

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#76

Post by djsumdog »

bhtru wrote: post #72
xg15 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service works if they want to make money there. So if the Chinese demand they get real-time access to all information Google has stored about anyone, or Google gets banned from China, they should do that too?

Is there a difference to how the NSA does same albeit with a time delay instead of being instantaneous?

> time delay

Is there one? PRISM and the early Snowden leaks indicated the searches were immediate. Was that not true?

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#78

Post by malvosenior »

r3bl wrote: post #60
malvosenior wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask you if you work for Google? If so you should probably disclose that because you post history makes this very much look like astroturfing. Sorry for bringing this up (I never do that on HN) but this is just too questionable of a defense to be putting up.

As someone who was a part of a project that Jigsaw sponsored, I can vouch for his claim that Google and Jigsaw have entirely different (and often contrary) missions. I am a Google critic as much as everyone else here, but I can say with confidence that we would all be thrilled if Google took the same stand on censorship as is Jigsaw's.

I think the claim is fine if you disclose you're an employee or somehow related to the project (as you have done), but this really looks like astroturfing.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#80

Post by r3bl »

mikeash wrote: post #63
r3bl wrote: post #45

Can we get a rename of this story? "Alphabet's Jigsaw" would be more appropriate. Jigsaw is, at best, a sibling of Google, not a part of Google. It is explained in the very first sentence, but comments so far don't seem to acknowledge that.

This is an interesting communications dilemma. I don't think most people have really understood the Google/Alphabet transition. When most people think of "Google" they're actually thinking of Alphabet. If you say "Google" then you're conveying the correct information using the wrong term. If you say "Alphabet" then you're using the right term but a lot of people won't know what you're talking about. What to do? This…

Out of interest, I searched for the Waymo tag in TechCrunch, and they seem to start the related articles with the following:

> Waymo, the former Google self-driving project that spun out to become a business under Alphabet, ...

Didn't look through all of them, but couldn't find an instance in which Waymo is represented as Google's Waymo anywhere, let alone in the title.

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