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Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

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Re: Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

#81
post #71
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I don't understand what you are suggesting or asking. Maybe this short video [1] with the classical balloon analogy will help you understand it better. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnENgtCdObo

Figure 1: _ _ |_|---------------|_| A B Figure 2: _ -----\____ _ |_|--/ \-|_| A B Let's say there is constant speed 'c' beyond which one can't travel. Lets say we travel at 'c'. Figure 1 is the fastest possible way of going from A to B If more space is added, and yet A and B remain at fixed positions, the only way this model will work is the path(possible way to go from A to B) gets looped/twisted and turned. In this…

[deleted]

Re: Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

#82
post #74

One question I have: is it not possible that the big bang occurred an infinite time ago? If the expansion of the universe is accelerating with time, does it not indicate that, if we reverse the time, the deceleration is asymptotic? In that case the big bang is compatible with a universe that has always existed and did not have a beginning

Even a car constantly accelerating for a long time was still at t0.

Re: Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

#83
post #80
post #74

One question I have: is it not possible that the big bang occurred an infinite time ago? If the expansion of the universe is accelerating with time, does it not indicate that, if we reverse the time, the deceleration is asymptotic? In that case the big bang is compatible with a universe that has always existed and did not have a beginning

The question is, does causality require time? I understand that physics can give us a definition of time as far as "happens-before" relationships go, but are "happens-before" and "happens-because-of" necessarily the same thing?

    If the world has begun with a single quantum,
    the notions of space and time would altogether
    fail to have any meaning at the beginning;
    they would only begin to have a sensible meaning
    when the original quantum had been divided into
    a sufficient number of quanta. If this suggestion
    is correct, the beginning of the world happened
    a little before the beginning of space and time.
Lemaître, G. (1931). "The Beginning of the World from the Point of View of Quantum Theory"

Re: Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

#84
post #71
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I don't understand what you are suggesting or asking. Maybe this short video [1] with the classical balloon analogy will help you understand it better. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnENgtCdObo

Figure 1: _ _ |_|---------------|_| A B Figure 2: _ -----\____ _ |_|--/ \-|_| A B Let's say there is constant speed 'c' beyond which one can't travel. Lets say we travel at 'c'. Figure 1 is the fastest possible way of going from A to B If more space is added, and yet A and B remain at fixed positions, the only way this model will work is the path(possible way to go from A to B) gets looped/twisted and turned. In this…

Now I see what you mean, you are confusing two spaces. Imagine a finite two dimensional space, say one meter in each dimension. You are now almost certainly picturing something like a sheet of paper one by one meter floating in our three dimensional space in front of you or maybe the surface of a table of that size. The important thing is that this is not a picture of a finite two dimensional space, it is the picture of a finite two dimensional space embedded in a three dimensional space.

If you would crumble up the sheet of paper to a small ball than that would be a different embedding of the two dimensional space in our three dimensional space but importantly the two dimensional space would remain unchanged. That is a two dimensional creature living on the sheet of paper could not tell the difference between living in a nicely flat sheet of paper and living in the crumbled up ball of paper.

And that is the same in your picture, space is the string between A and B and you can not tell the difference between it being embedded in a straight or curled up manner. Even more importantly a space does not require any embedding at all. It is a limitation of our brains that we can only imagine a two dimensional space as a sheet embedded in our three dimensional space. A and B can get further apart without being embedded in any space and moving away from each other in the embedding space or having new space curl up in between them.

So your mistake is to assume that our space must be embedded in another space in order to be able to expand. This might be the case but it is not necessary and we have no evidence for that. It also starts an infinite regress, why wouldn't the space our space is embedded in be embedded in yet another space? And then that one and the next one and so on.

If our space was indeed embedded in another space and curled up there, than your suggested faster trip from A to B would be the equivalent of a two dimensional creature leaving the crumbled up ball of paper into the third dimension, moving a bit through our three dimensional space, and then falling back into the paper at a point nearby in our three dimensional space but potentially far away from the starting point if you moved only inside the crumbled up sheet of paper. You would literally have to leave space-time and move through a space that is not our space-time.

This is in some sense very similar to wormholes but in that case you do not have to leave space-time and move freely through the embedding space but you can follow shortcuts inside space-time due to the topology of it. But again there is no need for any embedding space even if all the pictures of wormholes show space-time with the wormhole embedded in another space.

Re: Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

#85
post #74

One question I have: is it not possible that the big bang occurred an infinite time ago? If the expansion of the universe is accelerating with time, does it not indicate that, if we reverse the time, the deceleration is asymptotic? In that case the big bang is compatible with a universe that has always existed and did not have a beginning

Even a car constantly accelerating for a long time was still at t0.

[deleted]

Re: Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

#86
post #74

One question I have: is it not possible that the big bang occurred an infinite time ago? If the expansion of the universe is accelerating with time, does it not indicate that, if we reverse the time, the deceleration is asymptotic? In that case the big bang is compatible with a universe that has always existed and did not have a beginning

Even a car constantly accelerating for a long time was still at t0.

A big bang event could explain the reason why the universe expanded in the first place, but it does not explain the accelerating expansion of the universe currently, forgive me for my ignorance if any, but in physics I was taught that any object which moves or is in constant motion was acted upon by a force, and so if the big bang created an expansion it will be a constant expansion and not an accelerating expansion as is obtained presently, as there is a requirement for a kind of force to cause an accelerating expansion which is not explained by a singular big bang but by a continuous big bang, which could as well be infinite in nature.

Re: Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

#87
Isn’t “dark matter” just a way to account for an unexplained behavior? It bothers me that its existence is treated as a given, when it could be a case of mistaken assumptions. If calculations say the universe is acting as if it contained much more mass than we observe, we should also consider the possibility that our method of calculation may be flawed.

I’m not claiming dark matter doesn’t exist, only that I fear the human tendency to run with a hypothesis too eagerly and discard alternate options.

Similar to how everyone seems to speak as if Hawking radiation is a given fact, when it is thus far completely unproven and nothing more than a suggested idea.

Re: Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

#88
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, are we assuming the universe is infinite? Otherwise there'd be a border to that.

The universe is infinite by definition. It may be closed, which mean it will repeat itself indefinitely, but that's still infinite. What isn't infinite is the observable universe. But the observable universe is just the view we have, its boundaries are defined by the observer. In fact my observable universe is different from your observable universe, by an insignificant amount. When physicists talk about the universe…

How is the universe infinite by definition?

Wikipedia for one says the following. There is no mention of infinity.

"The Universe is all of space and time[a] and their contents,[10] including planets, stars, galaxies, and all other forms of matter and energy. While the spatial size of the entire Universe is still unknown,[3] it is possible to measure the observable universe."

Re: Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

#89

Isn’t “dark matter” just a way to account for an unexplained behavior? It bothers me that its existence is treated as a given, when it could be a case of mistaken assumptions. If calculations say the universe is acting as if it contained much more mass than we observe, we should also consider the possibility that our method of calculation may be flawed. I’m not claiming dark matter doesn’t exist, only that I fear the…

Dark matter is an observed phenomenon that can be explain by the existence of an additional, unknown kind of matter. I don't think scientists are unduly hung up on that explanation, though. It's merely the most likely. Plenty of scientists are looking for alternative explanations and I'm sure the rest will get on board if they find something convincing.

Re: Black holes ruled out as universe’s missing dark matter

#90
post #74

One question I have: is it not possible that the big bang occurred an infinite time ago? If the expansion of the universe is accelerating with time, does it not indicate that, if we reverse the time, the deceleration is asymptotic? In that case the big bang is compatible with a universe that has always existed and did not have a beginning

That's just zeno's paradox. It applies equally to any motion in any point in time.
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