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Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

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Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#51

Post by daveFNbuck »

pjc50 wrote: post #15

What this appears to be is a DNS-over-HTTPs proxy application, which will route your DNS traffic directly to Google bypassing any substitutions or deletions made by your local ISP or government. Whether the advantages of that outweigh giving google your DNS traffic (and realistically they already know every site you visit, because almost everyone uses google analytics) depends on your local security situation. Note t…

It can be configured to use any DNS-over-HTTPs server, and has cloudflare hard-coded as an option. When you first install it, they have a short onboarding that ends with asking you to enable needed permissions and informing you that you can use other providers, so you have a chance to change the settings before enabling the permissions.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#52

Post by jackhack »

bun_at_work wrote: post #29
philip1209 wrote: post #19

These dual standards for censorship annoy me. Google on Venezuelan censoring: bad, fight it Google on Chinese censoring: complicit, support it

Just a few things: 1) This tool is made by an Alphabet owned company (Jigsaw), not Google, another Alphabet owned company. The companies will have different missions, even if profits flow the same direction. 2) Venezuela doesn't have a huge market where Google is blocked by a nation-wide firewall. 3) China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service wo…

related to #1 -- I predict if some division of Alphabet threatens the income of another larger division (esp. Google), the smaller one will be shut down.

This is the reason for much of Sony's failure/inability to build a usable mp3 player. They built amazing music playback devices, but the record label division was so terrified of 'piracy' they forced the hardware division to require a proprietary encryption format (no "plain" mp3s) which essentially ruined the usability. So the company that built the walkman was hobbled, deliberately. Even the Poor Sony Aibo robot dog had to use specially modified Sony memory sticks with encryption and keys written into the normally-unwritable boot sector.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#53

Post by cmg »

philip1209 wrote: post #19

These dual standards for censorship annoy me. Google on Venezuelan censoring: bad, fight it Google on Chinese censoring: complicit, support it

It's blatant hypocrisy. Google has also de-ranked both Russia Today and Sputnik, but apparently doesn't doesn't consider that "censorship."

https://www.pcmag.com/news/357494/google-to-de-rank-rt-sputn...

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#54

Post by ghostly_s »

bubblethink wrote: post #39
21 wrote: post #12

This is richly ironic. I had to check that this was not an article from The Onion. Will this tool bypass the censored Google that will be introduced in China? More likely it will automatically report the user to the Chinese government if used in China.

This is about preventing dns manipulation attacks. That assumes that a DNS server (like 8.8.8.8) is generally accessible, but an adversary is trying to manipulate the responses. In China, you anyway can't access regular global dns servers. You need to use official dns supported by the government. So the question of dns manipulation is moot.

So that makes it morally consistent...how?

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#55

Post by samat »

The problem Intra solves is very real. MiTM attack on the DNS are the simplest ways to censor internet access and they are widely used in many countries.

I do despise google's efforts in dismantling any privacy which is left on the internet, but this particular program is very good.

I don't get this attitude of 'don't take a cake from the devil'. A) google is not devil, just another megacorp B) don't be blinded with slogans, evaluate merits of each offer individually. This particular offer is great and helps real people aka 'makes the world a better place', lol.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#56

Post by bilbo0s »

mtgx wrote: post #13
21 wrote: post #12

This is richly ironic. I had to check that this was not an article from The Onion. Will this tool bypass the censored Google that will be introduced in China? More likely it will automatically report the user to the Chinese government if used in China.

It probably won't even be available to Chinese users.

It wouldn't work in China anyway. So it can be available there, or not available there. Would make no functional difference.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#57

Post by jigaway2 »

I couldn't help but guffaw at this headline, given that Jigsaw's current flagship product is an automated censorship bot [1]. This is another example of the absurd belief that only ISPs can censor the internet, and not trillion dollar platform companies with monopolies or near-monopolies in several areas.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/technology/google-jigsaw-...

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#59

Post by briandear »

r3bl wrote: post #45

Can we get a rename of this story? "Alphabet's Jigsaw" would be more appropriate. Jigsaw is, at best, a sibling of Google, not a part of Google. It is explained in the very first sentence, but comments so far don't seem to acknowledge that.

Semantics. No rational person would believe that anyone other than Larry Page is calling the shots.

Re: Alphabet's cyber unit Jigsaw introduces a new security app to bust censorship

#60

Post by r3bl »

malvosenior wrote: post #37
bun_at_work wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few things: 1) This tool is made by an Alphabet owned company (Jigsaw), not Google, another Alphabet owned company. The companies will have different missions, even if profits flow the same direction. 2) Venezuela doesn't have a huge market where Google is blocked by a nation-wide firewall. 3) China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service wo…

Can I ask you if you work for Google? If so you should probably disclose that because you post history makes this very much look like astroturfing. Sorry for bringing this up (I never do that on HN) but this is just too questionable of a defense to be putting up.

As someone who was a part of a project that Jigsaw sponsored, I can vouch for his claim that Google and Jigsaw have entirely different (and often contrary) missions.

I am a Google critic as much as everyone else here, but I can say with confidence that we would all be thrilled if Google took the same stand on censorship as is Jigsaw's.

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