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Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

nytimes.com

131–140 of 169 posts

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is facing the prospect of needing to sell a honking load of stock at a discount to deal with their debt, and to do that they need a high stock price. While Musk appears to be a liability in many areas, he is the focus for a cult of personality that has made Tesla what it is, and has shown incredible talent for inflating the price of Tesla’s stock on that basis. So while Tesla as a healthy company without crushi…

> he is the focus for a cult of personality that has made Tesla what it is I disagree. What made Tesla what it is was the ability to design and bring to the market an electric car that people wanted to buy and actually prefered over equivalent ICE offerings, and pulling this off while competing against one of the most competitive and entrenched global industries. They promised and they delivered. That's what made Tes…

I don't believe that personally.

I am a huge Apple fan so this is not meant to be an insult, but to me Tesla is the Apple of EVs.

They made a product that people view above the sum of it's parts.

The fact is the Model S, and the Model 3, are cars that make people stretch beyond their means because they're held in a higher regard simply for coming from the brands they come from, the way the iPhone is, or a MacBook does.

It's what annoys some detractors of both "Why get a Model S, it's insulting to call it a luxury car next to an S Class that costs as much (which is true in my opinion)" "Why get an iPhone when an Android phone has 4x the RAM and a trick display and more apps! (which might be true)".

If another incumbent only did as much as either, they'd fail. GM couldn't make a Model 3 even if they made a Model 3. Reviewers wouldn't be charitable and say the tablet is "Forward facing". They'd call it what is honestly is, cost cutting.

They wouldn't argue Autopilot is improving, they'd be appalled an incumbent made a driving assistant willing to merge into lane shoulders and released it with nothing more than a "keep your hands on that wheel!"

Tesla has charisma, and that charisma imbues anything they make with a halo. That's why they can ask for 1k for a car coming out in 2+ years (or in even more years for the 35k version). That's why they can release AP without more safety guards than Super Cruise for example and not get skewered. Just like Apple can release a phone with a poor antenna and tell you you're holding it wrong, or a keyboard that gets clogged with normal use and tell you to pull out the compressed air.

And that charisma affects investors too. You can tell a TSLA investor from miles away just by how they speak. It's always about "the ride". It's almost always "Elon is saving humanity". It's why the CEO can call people pedos and not be removed, it's why shorting TSLA is probably the worst idea ever, but I digress...

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Innovation cycles have become much shorter. This is constantly being repeated but I doubt it is true

Just one very popular example: the length of the Walkman lifecycle was about 30 years. How long was the lifecycle of the iPod? Do you have any evidence to support your claim? I'd be honestly interested.

Let's say the speed of long distance travel.

I dropped dramatically when railways were invented and dropped again when commercial airliners became common.

In between these short bursts of innovation, not much has happened.

I just noticed though that I may be talking about a slightly different thing here, speed of innovation vs product life cycles.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#133
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn’t his ex-gf mention he was on acid during the “funding secured” fiasco? I wonder if drugs are contributing to it.

No, she didn't.

You’re right. It was a random comment by a friend of his gf who claimed to have visited his house during the crisis.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#134
post #112
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs stole $5k from his best friend Steve Wozniak https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/steve-wozniak-cried-jobs-kept-atar... He denied, for many years, that he was a father of his daughter and, while a millionaire, didn't support his daughter or her mother financially. He was investigated by SEC for, wait for it, securities fraud (stock options backdating including his 7.5 million stock options). He wasn't charged. His CF…

I’d also mention creating a cartel with other tech companies to keep wages down.

Not just wages, but mobility, there is a person attached to those wages.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#135
As someone who doesn’t own a Tesla, but did purchase a very crappy jacket they sold in 2012. I can say without Elon I put the whole company in “meh” mode. The truck, the roadster, the 3. All great products. The sense of its technology advancements. These stem from what Elon and the chief designer want. You can sense it. It’s like a heartbeat on the design.

Take Elon away. I’ll buy whatever dumb electric rolls off the lot. I’d only buy a Tesla car because I know that insanely dedicated, incredibly driven, “nutter” is still in charge of what happens. And the Easter eggs make the whole thing interesting. A normal CEO will never ok the things Elon does.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#136

If the fine is intended to be punitive or act as a deterrent, it surely fails. Musk's net worth is over $20B, so a $20M fine is It's a joke really, most Americans are lucky to even have a positive net worth. A traffic ticket hurts your average American much more than this fine hurts Musk and he committed a much larger crime than parking in the wrong spot.

> most Americans are lucky to even have a positive net worth The median American has a positive net worth of around $55,000. That's higher than Germany or Sweden, and just below Finland. > A traffic ticket hurts your average American much more than this The average American has a positive net worth of over $300,000 and represents the fourth richest average of any nationality. As such, the average American would shrug…

Are you referring to (a) Musk or an average Musk?

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#137
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but manufacturing entirely new type of car? somebody gotta take the hit of being the first (most of the time, failing) one to try to do it on this scale. It's the only way forward. I think old and steady auto manufacturers are too stagnant to ever try their hand at such a risky but needed move.

Is it really so? They are not the only one, nor were they the first either, really. Yes, in some areas they were first on the market. Many of the major ("old, boring") car manufacturers are growing on the EV segment and will overtake Tesla soon if not already there. For example, BMW i3 has sold around 100k units now, about a third of Teslas. Overall the market is dominated by the Chinese manufacturers. Tesla got wher…

> For example, BMW i3 has sold around 100k units now, about a third of Teslas

Reminds me of the "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame." wrap-up the Slashdot editors gave[1] to iPod upon release.[2]

Any Tesla model is an exciting car, due to performance and handling, the sheen of EV greenness, and the otherness of experience[3], while still being a no-compromise daily driver. Even the range anxiety on longer trips is a strong emotion, count it as a long-term advantage, and yet another spark for endless discussions mentioning the brand. Contrast that with the i3 being mid-to-lower-end model among BMW offerings, and excites close to nobody.

There's no trick in bringing a boring, incremental car to the market; any large company can do it. Nor is it a springboard from rags to riches; it can only work in a slow-moving, low-innovation market, which new car market used to be for decades, but apparently got hot again.

The trick is to bring something that has appearance of new&fresh, that will set an industry-wide trend, will appear to push the envelope, and will make customers into excited fanboys queueing up for the goods, or preordering a year in advance. This is much harder for an established player, due to Innovator's Dilemma, and the inertia of any large organization.

BMW i3 is "yeah, I save a bunch of $$$ on gas, and I can usually fit the groceries in the trunk"; Tesla is, "I GOT 10k LIKES ON MY LUDICROUS MODE VIDEO ON YOUTUBE AND MY SIGNIFICANT OTHER WAS SCREAMING ALL THE WAY ALSO SUNROOF Tesla is like the (early) fast and exciting X.com/PayPal among boring old banks with their wire transfers, rather than like umpteenth "also-ran" online payment processor we get every few months.

> Many of the major car manufacturers (...) will overtake Tesla soon if not already there

The IBM overtook Apple for several decades, in no small part thanks to the duopoly with Microsoft and their EEE tactics. And yet here we are, Apple > IBM. However IBM PC was effectively an open platform, while the modern passenger car is at best half-way such. In this race of Tesla against the proverbial Detroit, I bet on Tesla; and I put Elon's antics in the assets column rather than liabilities, with a "any PR is good PR" note.

[1] https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-i...

[2] and then there's the response Dropbox got early on on HN

[3] granted it's not for everybody. Just like Mercedes and BMW fans deride each others' ergonomic&stylistic choices.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#138

Personally, I think Elon Musk wants out of Tesla. The things he did lately, all point to this conclusion. Maybe he lost vision or interest in the company, but leaving from his own will would jeopardize the future of the company, since most of Tesla's backers are fans of him. Arranging himself an exit in this way, would make it look as he's the victim left with no choice but leave.

Continuing my original thought. This guy has been married to this company and it's what brought him the fame he has today. Surely, he was successful before starting Tesla, but at least from how I started to know about him, it's as Tesla's CEO.I can only imagine that subconsciously he feels very connected to the company. I've deliberately used "married to Tesla" because i wanted to make an analogy here. I know very we…

Elon didn’t start Tesla and I’m not really sure if he’s really a founder. I believe there was some legal issues regarding founders vs the series A “co-founders”.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#139
post #69

Is Elon Musk really an asset that Tesla needs to hold onto? I'll admit that he's a great salesman; but he's also a spoiled child who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. If Tesla wants to be taken seriously as a car company -- rather than as a maker of toys for people who have too much money on their hands -- they might well be better off calling his bluff.

Musk sure sounds a lot like a younger Steve Jobs. Maybe he needs to leave then come back?

Comparing Elon to Jobs is a bit insulting to Elon. Elons achievementts are huge.His former wife also had same view expressed in his biogry.
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