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Coders Automating Their Own Job

theatlantic.com

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Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#401

Post by emodendroket »

ctchocula wrote: post #228
Zarath wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"is there inherent nobility in work itself?" Nietzsche would hate this question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master%E2%80%93slave_morality Working is the opposite of noble in the traditional sense of the word.

Depends on what you mean by "traditional". Even in the New Testament, you'll find passages like 2 Thessalonians 3:10: 'For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.' There are probably examples from the Old Testament as well. Perhaps Nietzsche, with his critique of traditional Christian values, can be seen as a reaction against Christianity.

In general the New Testament preaches the idea of being a servant to others (Acts has the apostles living in what's basically a commune). This is a little different than the more unidirectional model of most workplaces.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#402

Post by orbitingpluto »

turtles wrote: post #396
orbitingpluto wrote: post #395

This is a common situation that I've been in several times before, even up to the point of automating the automating. I had one particularly nasty supervisor who gave me a project, then asked me how long it would take to program, then without fail tell me that was unacceptably slow, then tell me that my predecessor could have done it in half the time, and finally question my competence. So one day he brings me a shor…

“30 seconds”. You should have told him 6 hours. If he needs it done quicker hire someone else. Enjoy your day.

He wasn't able to successfully pull this stunt ever again. It actually completely changed our work dynamic and almost completely eliminated job stress. It was also the catalyst to deciding that I wanted to move on and I gave a 4 month notice shortly thereafter. Ultimate jerk move, he actually hid a bonus check intended for me in his desk for weeks because he didn't realize I was being so nice with the amount of notice. He thought he could prevent me from getting it entirely. That did not go over well with the president of the company.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#403

Post by abledon »

morenoh149 wrote: post #227
abledon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

look for excel heavy data entry jobs

any other tips? what if you have plenty of experience programming, wouldn't it be too obvious?

- I see your background is heavy in tech... we dont see these types of resumes normally

- yeah, i used to work on aproject for 4 years, it never saw the light of day because the people and business processes werent in place. I'm interested in exploring the non-programming side of business , the people relationships, (insert whatever aspects of position your applying for here)

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#404

Post by emodendroket »

peteforde wrote: post #119

You know how sometimes you love an article so much that you are annoyed you didn't write it? This does a better job than I could have of tieing together a dozen threads of conversation that I've had with various friends for years. I actually believe that there's a culture war implied in this debate; the question of who deserves to reap the gains of automation is more than just philosophy or ethics. The question "is t…

Necessary work may be noble, but doing busywork for the sake of it is not.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#405

Post by jsprenne »

snarkyturtle wrote: post #366
jsprenne wrote: post #363

Automating data entry work or similar is one thing, there are many companies out there automating a high-value-added work like IT project management. Most of the work project managers do today will be automated in the coming years. Mark my words!

One thing that PM's do that I don't ever see a computer doing is managing clients/workers. It's the classic idiom: technology is easy, it's people that's the hard problem.

You're right about people being the problem but, as you said, technology is easy and in my work, I see how automation manages clients and workers.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#406

Post by klibertp »

myWindoonn wrote: post #384
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I find fascinating about the article is that it's assumed the cleverness was the code written to automate. This is incorrect; the cleverness is in noticing when a task can be automated. Typically, the code itself is trivial. I have told my work more than once that if they wanted to get the most out of me they should put me on the "front line" for a month or two, and let me decide what needs to be automated.…

You're probably coming off as an arrogant prick. Try something like "In order to write better tools and automation, I need to empathize with the people using the tools and experiencing day-to-day pain. Can we find somebody who is willing to let me watch over their shoulder for a few minutes on one day?" Note the implicit bargaining for small amounts of time and only small intrusion, as well as the understanding that…

Good advice, but the first line is completely unneeded. I don't think that assuming someone's manner of speaking to be off-putting based on a short, evidently intended as a summary, comment on a forum is a polite thing to do. Using this kind of thinking suggests that you're no less of a prick than the GP, which is obviously wrong... right?

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#407

Post by noir_lord »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #303
peteforde wrote: post #119

You know how sometimes you love an article so much that you are annoyed you didn't write it? This does a better job than I could have of tieing together a dozen threads of conversation that I've had with various friends for years. I actually believe that there's a culture war implied in this debate; the question of who deserves to reap the gains of automation is more than just philosophy or ethics. The question "is t…

One thing I find fascinating about the article is that it's assumed the cleverness was the code written to automate. This is incorrect; the cleverness is in noticing when a task can be automated. Typically, the code itself is trivial. I have told my work more than once that if they wanted to get the most out of me they should put me on the "front line" for a month or two, and let me decide what needs to be automated.…

Our most recent stocktake I took the day off from programming, grabbed a handheld and went around doing the same job as anyone else doing stocktake, I have about half a dozen small-medium sized changes I can make that will vastly reduce time for next stock take.

I've also spent time in our sandblast units and our loading docks and sales team.

How can I architect and build good software if I don't have a good understanding of the domain and you can only get that by immersing yourself in it head first.

I'm lucky in that my boss cottoned onto the fact we get better software when I see the problem in the raw and not just his interpretation of the problem.

Wouldn't work for everyone, we are a small production/import company so it's possible for me to get the basics of each users role (and I can physically go ask them if need be) but it's a huge win imo if it's possible.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#408

Post by klibertp »

turnitoff wrote: post #344
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because they don't want you to do their job. Job protectivism (?) is a serious thing.

No. By the time you get hired and you are appointed a set of things to automate, it's usually followed by a long line of deliberation and resource management and prioritizing that's determined on the higher up. There is a thing called "process debt", in the same way as technical debt, that some things are done manually. This can be mundane routine work, that might be up to 80% easy to automate, but allows for oversig…

> "I'll see something that you haven't noticed in years!"

There's this saying in my country, roughly translated to "Guest for a second, sees a mile far" (sorry... it even rhymes and everything in Polish...)

Being immersed in something for a long time has a good chance of limiting your perspective to that thing only. While it's true that perhaps 90% of newcomers and their ideas simply miss the intricacies of the current process and would be disastrous if implemented, the remaining 10% is a genuine innovation which would never come from the inside.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#409

Post by protonfish »

noir_lord wrote: post #407
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I find fascinating about the article is that it's assumed the cleverness was the code written to automate. This is incorrect; the cleverness is in noticing when a task can be automated. Typically, the code itself is trivial. I have told my work more than once that if they wanted to get the most out of me they should put me on the "front line" for a month or two, and let me decide what needs to be automated.…

Our most recent stocktake I took the day off from programming, grabbed a handheld and went around doing the same job as anyone else doing stocktake, I have about half a dozen small-medium sized changes I can make that will vastly reduce time for next stock take. I've also spent time in our sandblast units and our loading docks and sales team. How can I architect and build good software if I don't have a good understa…

Trying to get access to the people who actually do the jobs that can be automated is almost always a struggle. It seems weird and counter-intuitive to me so I have never figured out what to say to get this critical resource. Typically you have to gather user data through a telephone game-like chain of middle managers. And that doesn't really work,

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#410

Post by hessproject »

Aloha wrote: post #294
PopeDotNinja wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's why a lot of people view the poor as lazy (because obviously if they weren't lazy, they wouldn't be poor, right?). There's a sleeps-on-the-street homeless guy living in my neighborhood. I talk to him on occasion. A couple days ago he said he was bored off his ass, and that he was thinking of getting a part time job. I did not verbally respond to his potential quest for employment, but I did find myself…

Getting sober and finding a shower aint as hard as it would seem.

Finding a shower no, but depending on how long he's been an alcoholic getting sober could be a different story, and alcohol withdrawal is one of the few withdrawals that can be fatal and frequently requires medical supervision
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