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Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

nytimes.com

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Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#81

Post by starbugs »

Animats wrote: post #75

There used to be a sort of tradition that you started with the inexperienced startup CEO. Then, when the business became large, the board got someone with experience running a big company. That's changed in recent years. Page and Brin are back running Google, Jobs came back to Apple, and Zuckerberg is still in charge at Facebook. On the other hand, Uber got rid of their startup guy and got a manager type, who has bee…

> That's the Tesla situation. Product is OK. Customers are enthusiastic. Production is in trouble. Cost and labor hours per car are way too high. The financial situation isn't good. That's usually when the board and stockholders put in an operations-oriented CEO.

And in doing so risk that the company becomes another GE-like corporate which is no longer able to innovate and inspire people.

Things have changed. Markets have changed. Innovation cycles have become much shorter.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#82

Post by WalterBright »

kirillzubovsky wrote: post #8

These articles about Elon are interesting to me because Tesla could not have become such a valuable car company in such a short time if it wasn't for Elon, and that includes his personality. Yet, many couch investors would prefer to have a CEO who is stable, boring and predictable. People want to put their money in for steady long-term returns, and not worry. Tesla is doing wild things which are causing crazy growth,…

I invested in Tesla because I couldn't buy stock in SpaceX. But I view it as buying a lottery ticket, and just to join in the fun of what Elon is doing. I didn't buy enough to engender much angst if it goes to zero. I just want to be a part of it!

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#83

Post by nordsieck »

bicubic wrote: post #73
paulsutter wrote: post #56

He approached it perfectly. I mean seriously, what’s the worst that could happen? He leaves and the company sells out to Apple? Sure, progress would slow but Apple wouldn’t bungle it. Meanwhile he would get to focus on the weightier innovation at SpaceX and The Boring Company (disclaimer, am a SpaceX shareholder and secretly this is exactly what I want)

You have SpaceX shares? How?

> You have SpaceX shares? How?

Presumably he work(s|ed) there.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#84

Post by ACow_Adonis »

tehlike wrote: post #41
kirillzubovsky wrote: post #8

These articles about Elon are interesting to me because Tesla could not have become such a valuable car company in such a short time if it wasn't for Elon, and that includes his personality. Yet, many couch investors would prefer to have a CEO who is stable, boring and predictable. People want to put their money in for steady long-term returns, and not worry. Tesla is doing wild things which are causing crazy growth,…

Elon musk brings entropy, with entropy comes higher reward.

Except its important to get the direction of causation right.

Trying to achieve higher rewards generally necessitates risk taking. Desire for the first leads to the second.

High entropy events, by themselves, do not necessitate greater possibilities of higher rewards. There is no great benefit to sticking your face in a fan, as high entropy as that might be.

So the question comes, has Elon lately been doing things high entropy because he's chasing higher rewards by doing them, or are they just high entropy because they're high entropy.

At least for a couple of recent "Elon specials" (paedophile smears, SEC, dope smoking), it looks to me like you would be very hard pressed in arguing that this individual isn't one just partaking in "face in the fan" type entropy...

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#85

Post by dragosmocrii »

imhoguy wrote: post #71
dragosmocrii wrote: post #35

Personally, I think Elon Musk wants out of Tesla. The things he did lately, all point to this conclusion. Maybe he lost vision or interest in the company, but leaving from his own will would jeopardize the future of the company, since most of Tesla's backers are fans of him. Arranging himself an exit in this way, would make it look as he's the victim left with no choice but leave.

He is going to leave and do the promised buyout. The stock price is bargain. Tesla will be privately held company soon. My $0.02.

Curious note I found while trying to validate your claim that current stock price is bargain: if you look at the stock price on Google for the past 5 days, the graph looks like a neural network tried to reproduce Tesla's logo.

Going back to your claim, I dont think a current price of $300 per share is bargain. But with his current behaviour, I can see that happening in the near future.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#86

Post by roland00 »

refurb wrote: post #23
olliej wrote: post #3

Ignoring everything else it does seem like he needs therapy of some kind, not for mental health reasons, but for learning to better control his impulsiveness. As to any of his other behaviors: ehn. I don’t have enough money to be effected by his antics :D

Didn’t his ex-gf mention he was on acid during the “funding secured” fiasco? I wonder if drugs are contributing to it.

I do not know if he was on drugs during the twitter thing (most recent 420), but Elon Musk in the last year (only in the last year) has been upfront about his trauma with his parent divorced and his father who was messed up and did not have anything close to a traditional parenting methods let alone boundaries with his children.

Elon Musk has trauma, and it really shows on his personality. Everyone "loves" his innovator / save the world complex, but put another spin on it and it reaks of an "Atlas Personality / Complex" where you were forced to grow up too fast and you feel the whole world is on your shoulders (you must save it.)

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#87

Post by superfrank »

Animats wrote: post #75

There used to be a sort of tradition that you started with the inexperienced startup CEO. Then, when the business became large, the board got someone with experience running a big company. That's changed in recent years. Page and Brin are back running Google, Jobs came back to Apple, and Zuckerberg is still in charge at Facebook. On the other hand, Uber got rid of their startup guy and got a manager type, who has bee…

> Customers are enthusiastic

Right now, part of Tesla's selling point is that you are buying a car "made" by Elon Musk. The image of him being a visionary and you get to buy into his future is part of the brand.

If Elon leaves the company, especially if there is bad blood, a lot of that enthusiasm that customers have may drop off. Tesla with some faceless CEO starts to look a lot more like just another luxury car company.

Tesla without Elon may actually make a better product and may be a better company, but it becomes a lot less marketable.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#88

Post by DanFeldman »

Animats wrote: post #75

There used to be a sort of tradition that you started with the inexperienced startup CEO. Then, when the business became large, the board got someone with experience running a big company. That's changed in recent years. Page and Brin are back running Google, Jobs came back to Apple, and Zuckerberg is still in charge at Facebook. On the other hand, Uber got rid of their startup guy and got a manager type, who has bee…

And then slowly after years of being managed by an experienced operator, a company loses its ability to innovate until the manager is removed. See Microsoft with Ballmer -> Nadella

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#89

Post by scarlac »

r00fus wrote: post #69
cperciva wrote: post #24

Is Elon Musk really an asset that Tesla needs to hold onto? I'll admit that he's a great salesman; but he's also a spoiled child who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. If Tesla wants to be taken seriously as a car company -- rather than as a maker of toys for people who have too much money on their hands -- they might well be better off calling his bluff.

Musk sure sounds a lot like a younger Steve Jobs. Maybe he needs to leave then come back?

Jobs was ousted by his own team. He didn't leave and just walk back in. Apple was in deep trouble.

I'm not convinced it was somehow better for Apple that it happened. If anything it only lamented that Jobs was required to make it work, which could only possibly leave Jobs with a bigger ego.

Re: Elon Musk’s Ultimatum to Tesla: Fight the S.E.C., or I Quit

#90

Post by cperciva »

r00fus wrote: post #69
cperciva wrote: post #24

Is Elon Musk really an asset that Tesla needs to hold onto? I'll admit that he's a great salesman; but he's also a spoiled child who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way. If Tesla wants to be taken seriously as a car company -- rather than as a maker of toys for people who have too much money on their hands -- they might well be better off calling his bluff.

Musk sure sounds a lot like a younger Steve Jobs. Maybe he needs to leave then come back?

Elon Musk might be far better at running multi-billion dollar companies after he grows up, yes.

Steve Jobs was certainly far more "grown up" when he returned to Apple.

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