This article really highlights how odd our methods of valuing output are. Ultimately if someone is idling for 6 years because they've written a program to do their job for them, who cares? They are delivering the same output which hopefully the company deemed was valued at X amount BECAUSE it delivers Y amount of profit/returns. This article is actually touching on a deeper level of dysfunction in how we do things li…
This is related to Taleb's observation that employment is a kind of "slavery". What he means by this is that you effectively have sold your option to own those to outsized returns in exchange for a regular paycheck.
Coders Automating Their Own Job
261–270 of 499 posts
Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
Re: Modern web dev is fantastically more productive and efficient than it was 10 or 15 years ago. I have to disagree. The esthetical expectations of the user/customer are higher now. If it's not "in style" they think you are sticking them with old tech. And you have the desktop/mobile split that frameworks only get half right and require days of black-box fiddling to get working right on all devices. And JavaScript g…
I submit that having ten thousand node.js/npm dependencies is far worse than any DLL Hell that has ever been experienced to date.
Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job
#263This article really highlights how odd our methods of valuing output are. Ultimately if someone is idling for 6 years because they've written a program to do their job for them, who cares? They are delivering the same output which hopefully the company deemed was valued at X amount BECAUSE it delivers Y amount of profit/returns. This article is actually touching on a deeper level of dysfunction in how we do things li…
If you don't value what you did, why should your employer?
Also, why should an employer raise your salary based on the fact you are automating stuff? It's part of your job, after all. That's what programming is about.
Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job
#264You know how sometimes you love an article so much that you are annoyed you didn't write it? This does a better job than I could have of tieing together a dozen threads of conversation that I've had with various friends for years. I actually believe that there's a culture war implied in this debate; the question of who deserves to reap the gains of automation is more than just philosophy or ethics. The question "is t…
I love this article because it changed my mind. I was one of the redditors who urged FiletOFish1066 to fess up to his employers on the basis of some moral high ground I felt I occupied. I see now that I made the mistaken assumption that work == goodness and went on from there.
Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was going to suggest this from my experience. I hate to burst GP's bubble, but the attitude and environment at his next job probably won't be any better in regard to "best practices." It's extremely difficult to gauge how your attitude toward development compares with a prospective team's after an hour of chatting. I became a manager last year and quickly discovered that changing others' behavior and habits is next…
As a non-developer, how can I hire someone (or a team) like OP that focuses on automating menial stuff and focuses on the most important? Does a development agency that focuses on this model exist? Of course they should be paid more per hour (or other unit) than your average, less optimized agency, but the sum total should be less than hiring inefficient agencies. (P.S. I understand the best developers probably don't…
In many cases, what somebody does (and why) is not documented, or if it is the documentation is most likely out of date and inaccurate.
To effectively automate a task, you need to fully understand what needs to be done as well as have the skills to do the actual automation. Getting somebody in who is unfamiliar with the job, can work, but in most cases you will end up with an off the shelf system that has been customised to perform the original task but come with a large overhead of maintenance that may take more work than the original task.
My suggestion would be that rather than get an outsider to create the automation tools, up-skill and authorise the staff doing the work now to allow them to gradually automate the process. Make sure you make it worth their whiles to automate.
Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job
#266This article really highlights how odd our methods of valuing output are. Ultimately if someone is idling for 6 years because they've written a program to do their job for them, who cares? They are delivering the same output which hopefully the company deemed was valued at X amount BECAUSE it delivers Y amount of profit/returns. This article is actually touching on a deeper level of dysfunction in how we do things li…
This is related to Taleb's observation that employment is a kind of "slavery". What he means by this is that you effectively have sold your option to own those to outsized returns in exchange for a regular paycheck.
Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job
#267This article really highlights how odd our methods of valuing output are. Ultimately if someone is idling for 6 years because they've written a program to do their job for them, who cares? They are delivering the same output which hopefully the company deemed was valued at X amount BECAUSE it delivers Y amount of profit/returns. This article is actually touching on a deeper level of dysfunction in how we do things li…
Indeed, the best work is done when you do it for yourself. People basically sign their brains away when they go to work for Facebook and Google. Those companies will be likely to get B players no matter how many seemingly great people they hire. The 4.0 MIT grad who can recite chapters from his CS401 class isn't necessarily an A player. Most of the A players I know are either ex-Facebook/ex-Google or turned down working at those places because they have more important things to do with their time.
The real A players are much harder to find and are much harder to value. Without ownership in what you do, there is a high probability that you will not be at your best. If you need to be paid to do something, it is unlikely to be what fulfills you.
Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job
#268This article really highlights how odd our methods of valuing output are. Ultimately if someone is idling for 6 years because they've written a program to do their job for them, who cares? They are delivering the same output which hopefully the company deemed was valued at X amount BECAUSE it delivers Y amount of profit/returns. This article is actually touching on a deeper level of dysfunction in how we do things li…
Their boss cares. This is capitalism, and capitalist ethics say you should be fired if you're idling and not continuing to actively labor for the boss anymore. She's not getting anything in return for your salary. You more than likely signed away all rights to the fruits of your labor when you took the job. That means "your" automation is really your boss's capital, and you have no rights to be perpetually compensated for it.
So, if you ever automate your own job, don't tell anyone. Also make sure to make your automation so arcane and impenetrable that no one else can hope to use it.
Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job
#269-- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations/Book_I/...
1. The modern term for these devices is the perhaps more familiar "steam engine'.
Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the quote "The harder I work the luckier I get." applies here. Hard work results in being able to take advantage of more opportunities. But you still have to have those opportunities. I think this is a case where people confuse correlation and causation. Hard work correlates with success, but it doesn't cause success.
> I think this is a case where people confuse correlation and causation. Hard work correlates with success, but it doesn't cause success. Not true, hard work is a cause of success, just not the only cause. Luck (opportunity) is a factor, but a much more unreliable one at that. Genetics is also a factor (intelligence, passion, curiosity, playfulness). I like to see this problem from the point of view of Reinforcement…
That requires a substantial amount of hard work but unlikely results in a measurable amount of success. Certainly one less than would be if the proper tools were used.
And I do agree with you that it is not the only factor. But this is why I differentiate cause and correlation. And the disagreement is likely to how we are using those terms. I am using "cause" in the colloquial sense (because context from above) of how most people do not see multivariate equations, but single factor (which is an unfortunate thing) ie. "cause and effect" (but we both know better). I am using "correlation" in the more rigorous manner meaning "related to; a statistical variable; or to be in association with".
And going back to your RL example, I think you mention one part which proves my point as well.
> the exploration/exploitation strategy
You may notice that many learning algorithms have a substantial amount of failure. After all, it is the failure that leads to success. BUT a key point is that it is not the effort put into the attempt that led to success, it is the adaptation of a new strategy after recognizing the failure. You could just as easily never visited that attempt method and thus your efforts would lead to a higher success/work factor. You could also never change strategies and your efforts would result in a substantially lower success/work factor. More explicitly "hard work" is a variable that is coupled with "strategy", and the value of "hard work" can be astronomically high but the value for success can be zero. And for this reason we say it is not "the cause" but rather "a factor" or "correlates with".
Also, as mentioned in a grandchild to my post, this is a saying which I gladly will admit does not cover the entire scope of what factors lead to success. Even the unpacking of implicit information cannot do that, as a full description of the path to success is rather cumbersome.