Coders Automating Their Own Job • Hacker News Board

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#41

Post by empath75 » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 8:23 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #8

It should be noted that programmers are not automating themselves out of programming jobs . They're automating themselves out of data entry, or testing, or any number of other mindless tasks easily done by computers.

If you think about it, the existence of programming languages and compilers is due to programmers automating their jobs away. They no longer had to tediously translate higher level algorithms to machine code.

And really, the existence of computers is the result of automating the job of human computers away. The entire history of computer science is this.

The difference is that these guys hit a local maxima, and just ... stop. Instead of moving up to the next level and making more money.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#42

Post by jt2190 » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 8:25 PM UTC

We need a HOWTO for Job Automators that addresses things like:

    * when to automate versus when to quit and 
      start a company
    * who owns the code, and how to find out
    * when/if/how to reveal the automation 
      to your employer
    * etc.

(edit: Mentioned in the article was this book: Automate the Boring Stuff with Python, by Al Sweigart: https://nostarch.com/automatestuff#content)

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#43

Post by y4mi » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 8:26 PM UTC

arif_sohaib wrote: post #39

pathseeker wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and finding other companies who are probably paying employees to do the same thing. Then start your own company that does whatever this task is as a service. Careful, if it gets out that you wrote the code to automate your job as a coder while actually at your job, your company most likely owns that IP.

I am still in academics so I have a question about this. If your company owns this is, what shouldn't they be rewarding you generously for making it? They are making money out of your extra effort/work. I get that employees who want their own ip should have the right but if the company is paying you extra and giving other rewards and removing the headache of managing your own company, is that not good?

They're entitled to the code without any extras though. That is what employment is.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#44

Post by darawk » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 8:27 PM UTC

pathseeker wrote: post #24

darawk wrote: post #6

The employer is paying you for the product, not the effort. I see no moral quandary here, nor any compulsion to notify the employer. They're getting what they want, that should be the end of it. EDIT: And I would add, for anyone that has automated their job in this way...what you should really be doing is scaling it up, and finding other companies who are probably paying employees to do the same thing. Then start you…

>and finding other companies who are probably paying employees to do the same thing. Then start your own company that does whatever this task is as a service. Careful, if it gets out that you wrote the code to automate your job as a coder while actually at your job, your company most likely owns that IP.

True, though presumably if you have an automatable job, you're not actually employed as a programmer and as such may not have a clause like that in your employment agreement.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#45

Post by hon » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 8:27 PM UTC

reynard_le_faux wrote: post #10

darawk wrote: post #6

The employer is paying you for the product, not the effort. I see no moral quandary here, nor any compulsion to notify the employer. They're getting what they want, that should be the end of it. EDIT: And I would add, for anyone that has automated their job in this way...what you should really be doing is scaling it up, and finding other companies who are probably paying employees to do the same thing. Then start you…

Maybe we both have loose morals but I don't see it as cheating the employer anymore than one "cheats" an employer by driving to work instead of walking.

>I don't see it as cheating the employer anymore than one "cheats" an employer by driving to work instead of walking

Can you expand on this? I don't understand the anology

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#46

Post by bpchaps » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 8:30 PM UTC

One thought that keeps me awake at night is that my past automation work has cost others their jobs. I understand that that's "how the world works", but it still deeply affects me that people have lost their livelihoods because of my actions.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#47

Post by crooked-v » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 8:30 PM UTC

arif_sohaib wrote: post #39

pathseeker wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and finding other companies who are probably paying employees to do the same thing. Then start your own company that does whatever this task is as a service. Careful, if it gets out that you wrote the code to automate your job as a coder while actually at your job, your company most likely owns that IP.

I am still in academics so I have a question about this. If your company owns this is, what shouldn't they be rewarding you generously for making it? They are making money out of your extra effort/work. I get that employees who want their own ip should have the right but if the company is paying you extra and giving other rewards and removing the headache of managing your own company, is that not good?

This is why people should be in unions.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#48

Post by mikestew » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 8:33 PM UTC

What's disappointing is the opening story of the QA guy who automated his job and then proceeded to spend time playing video games. To each their own how to use new-found efficiency, but if this person had truly automated their job in 50 hours, I'll bet someone within the company could find him something more interesting to do, for a lot more money.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#49

Post by michaelbuckbee » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 8:33 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #8

It should be noted that programmers are not automating themselves out of programming jobs . They're automating themselves out of data entry, or testing, or any number of other mindless tasks easily done by computers.

Development jobs are shifting as more and more towards "plugging APIs together" and much less end to end development.

Modern web dev is fantastically more productive and efficient than it was 10 or 15 years ago.

Most/many SAAS apps are substitutes for aspects of what previously would have been part of a developers job to put into place.

Re: Coders Automating Their Own Job

#50

Post by jmathai » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 8:33 PM UTC

pathseeker wrote: post #28

jmathai wrote: post #2

I realized at my last job that I was working to essentially replace myself and my co-workers. It was a pretty sobering thought. We often joke about training our replacements but we're definitely in an age where it's just as easy (if not easier) to build our replacements. This doesn't have to come in the form of AI which can ingest requirements and write code. It typically comes in the form of automating specific aspe…

> I realized at my last job that I was working to essentially replace myself and my co-workers. It was a pretty sobering thought. You've just described the purpose of the entire software industry. Did it really not occur to you that writing systems to automate tasks would displace anyone doing those tasks manually?

It did occur to me....at my last job.