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Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

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Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#551
post #321

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You can both be right. It’s great that they made this move after much criticism, prodding and foot dragging, but... this reaction can also be calculated so that not only they have to carry this load alone but spread it to competitors. In other words AMZN is willing to do it, but they don’t want to be the only ones “burdened” unlike Costco who did it out of concern and perhaps principle (and competitive advantage by e…

Seems like a ridiculous risk to take given it is reliant on the US government that is unequivocally pro-business right now and will be until at least 2020.

The government says they're pro business, but Trump himself is quite anti-Amazon (well, at least anti-Bezos, which extends itself to being somewhat anti-Amazon).

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations do not deserve praise for doing the right thing. They are not people, with feelings, who respond to emotional stimuli in the form of positive reinforcement. They are businesses that respond to the market (indeed, their legal duty is to maximize profits). In markets, negative pressure works. Asking nicely does not.

> their legal duty is to maximize profits I am not nit-picking, asking in good faith: is that enacted into a law ? Or is that part of a contract between shareholders and the board of executives ? I have heard about that walmart competitor run like a family business and that gives every employees a voice (a cooperative ?).

It's part of the contract for most standard corporations (that aren't B Corps) - the management has a duty to do what's best for the company, which usually comes out to "have a good reason behind doing something". If Amazon comes out tomorrow and says they're throwing in the towel and giving away their money to the Seattle poor because that will have a more positive impact, the lawsuits will be immediate and fairly one-sided. It would be a fairly easy case to argue that Amazon would be failing in their duty to shareholders by spending their money on something with no hope of an ROI.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a nice story, but it's just that. Alternatively, all the minimum wage workers will have more expendable income. Some of that may be spent at those brick-and-mortar shops, and will offset the additional costs. Remember that the velocity of money makes it a non-zero-sum game. EDIT: Ends up that Wikipedia covers this nicely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta... "The interconnection of p…

Or they spend their extra money at Amazon because prices are lower. Or you are right and it helps brick and mortar in the handful of cities with Amazon warehouses, but hurts everywhere else. Worst case for Amazon is they maintain status quo by forcing competitors cost up. Best case for Amazon is that they drive some of their competition out of business, or take some of that business because super giant Amazon is bett…

The thing is, this is a bit circular. How can Amazon pay more than others, but it hurts them less? Because they have some kind of competitive advantage, no? That advantage is going to manifest somewhere. Saying that they are going to get a competitive advantage by raising wages, which they could only do because they had a competitive advantage... Doesn't really go anywhere. This just happens to be the chosen manifestation of their advantage, and honestly higher wages are probably one of the more socially-positive manifestations.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#554
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the topic in question is how one of the most powerful companies on Earth chooses to use its power we should strive to always be this cynical. Skepticism of concentrated power is the ur-American political belief. We seem to have forgotten that lately.

If you're willing to shame a company for behavior you don't like, I think you should be prepared to give praise when they do exactly what you just asked for. When you constantly move the goal posts just so that you never have to abandon your righteous anger for even one day, what kind of incentive does that give companies to change their behavior?

Spot on. Continuous outrage syndrome is a real problem feed by the fact that outrage and self-righteous news sellls better than just the facts news.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#555
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the topic in question is how one of the most powerful companies on Earth chooses to use its power we should strive to always be this cynical. Skepticism of concentrated power is the ur-American political belief. We seem to have forgotten that lately.

If you're willing to shame a company for behavior you don't like, I think you should be prepared to give praise when they do exactly what you just asked for. When you constantly move the goal posts just so that you never have to abandon your righteous anger for even one day, what kind of incentive does that give companies to change their behavior?

If Amazon's private intentions match this public description, then what they are doing is very admirable. The problem is I get suspicious when power turns populist... there is oftentimes an agenda. (See: Trump, or US politics in general)

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#556
post #218

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Wow, does the top comment always have to be cynical? This is exactly what everyone wanted Amazon to do. Maybe it's time to suck it up and give praise where praise is due? There are also benefits to paying more salary than your competitors (no hiring shortages, best employees, low turnover, etc), so I'm not going to blindly accept that it's now in Amazon's interest to drag the rest of the industry along with them. But…

> This is exactly what everyone wanted Amazon to do You really need to get out of your bubble. A lot of us who understand economics genuinely think minimum wages hurt the poor, and think this can bring a lot of unemployment.

Please do not insinuate that those of us who support higher minimum wages do not understand economics. It's extremely uncivil.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#557
post #180

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> In the process, they're actually paying real people more money Except the OP was talking specifically about the company's plan to lobby. Yes, they're actually paying people more money, but if everyone has that same amount of money then you get wage push inflation. Then everyone loses. This is also why minimum wage discussions always spiral out of control...there really is no good long term solution for setting mini…

It's all relative. If minimum wage workers get their income doubled, but my income does not double, then they are doing better relative to me than they were before. And I do not expect my salary to double upon passing of such legislation.

And why do you care? You're not doing worse than you were before.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be able to give up your paycheck, knowing that if you don't have another by next week you would literally be homeless? With no savings, no healthcare, no "fallback", no help, nothing. Sit down, and really decide if you would be able to quit your fulltime job that is giving you about $100 a week after taxes, and have to decide how to make that $100 last paycheck last until you find another job? Maybe you'll…

> Would you be able to give up your paycheck, knowing that if you don't have another by next week you would literally be homeless? Nope. This idea gets bandied about all the time. How is missing a paycheck for 1 week going to result in homelessness?

Why are you so sure this isn't the case?

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it was hard to unionize a workplace where people didn't stick around for a whole year on average. That's why you want inter-professional union.

How would that end up working? I think few people think of themselves as "call center professionals" because they end up in some other job, but maybe I'm misunderstanding your suggestion.

Typically every professions from every sectors (employees, medical, farmer, etc.) end up into a given category (social workers, railroad workers, etc.). Unions then use the memberships of all the employees across different companies and sectors as a leverage to negotiate better working conditions or retirement on behalf of their affiliates. So when/if is a strike is called for for a particular problem at company X or in sector Y they get the full force of every affiliates behind the union (edit: they can also dispatch strikers from company X at company Y location so workers from company Y aren't directly threatened or put into uncomfortable situations for instance, and massive street demonstration can rally many workers from many different companies/sectors).

Of course that system has been built over decades and the way it operates and negotiations are handled can vastly differ between neighboring countries (think France which is more confrontational at first and Germany where unions are more integrated into the process) (plus, unions have different political outlooks, so it's not one size fits all).

In countries with a strong social net unions use their affiliate's entrance fees to guarantee they are paid for striked days. Also some countries have laws that forbid employers to punish strikers (granted they announce in time they are going on a strike). Some sectors (medical, police, etc.) have some restrictions on that "right to strike".

That's just a really short resume, though and I don't know if such a thing could be possible in the USA.

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