Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#251

Post by baldfat » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 2:22 PM UTC

throwaway080383 wrote: post #226

mbesto wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the process, they're actually paying real people more money Except the OP was talking specifically about the company's plan to lobby. Yes, they're actually paying people more money, but if everyone has that same amount of money then you get wage push inflation. Then everyone loses. This is also why minimum wage discussions always spiral out of control...there really is no good long term solution for setting mini…

It's all relative. If minimum wage workers get their income doubled, but my income does not double, then they are doing better relative to me than they were before. And I do not expect my salary to double upon passing of such legislation.

Are you saying your salary is based on keeping the working poor? OR are you saying you think corporations and their investors deserve a low wage workforce that the government will take care of with your tax dollars? I find no logical sense other then your mad that people can make money for WORKING.

When people make $15 an hour they will need less government assistance. This will take away from corporate's profits, which has gone through the roof without an salary bumps the last 40 years.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#252

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 2:22 PM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #230

jacquesm wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between everybody being 'rich' and simply paying a living wage. Note how Ford got as big as it was in part not just because he made a damn good automobile but because he paid his employees a wage large enough that they could afford a car. A couple of billionaires less and a higher standard of living for the masses is a good thing.

Define "living wage". Please be specific, no vague dancing around.

Living wage: a wage sufficiently high that after paying taxes there is still enough left over for small family or individual to live off when all normal expenses are accounted for based on a workweek no longer than 40 hours in total.

That works out to $2400 gross per month (so before taxes) which if you can't recoup it from the work input says more about the company you are working for and their inability to capture value. Keep in mind that raising the wage across the bar will increase inflation but will level the wage disparity between 'smart' work and 'dumb' work.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#253

Post by dsfyu404ed » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

konschubert wrote: post #239

bufferoverflow wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it will increase unemployment and will increase the inflation. Why stop at $15? Let's make it $50/hr, make everyone "rich".

I know you're joking. But it's not true that rising the minimum wage would immediately be cancelled out by inflation. That would be true only if everybody was earning minimum wage. Increasing the minimum wage from 5 to 50 dollars is unlikely to cause a 10x inflation, it more likely would cause a 3x or 5x inflation. The poor would have more and the rich would have less. It would likely reduce the spread of wealth in t…

High minimum wage doesn't hurt the "rich" it hurts everyone who's making just more than minimum all the way to the upper middle class because their cost of living either increases or their standard of living decreases.

The "rich" are rich enough that it's just a drop in the bucket.

Edit: I don't mean to say that minimum wage isn't worthwhile, just that framing it in terms of a rich to poor wealth transfer is somewhat dishonest.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#254

Post by swebs » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

ionised wrote: post #120

swebs wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If not, why is so much criticism directed at Amazon specifically, rather than at capitalism itself? What's the point of criticizing capitalism if there are no viable alternatives?

Who says there are no viable alternatives?

None that I know of at least. If you can think of any, feel free to list them.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#255

Post by bostonscott » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #141

swebs wrote: post #17

>In addition, the company also pledges its public policy team will lobby for an increase to the federal minimum wage from $7.25 — it doesn’t identify a specific wage that it’s targeting, but instead says, “We believe $7.25 is too low. We would look to Congress to decide the parameters of a new, higher federal minimum wage.” I'm going to take a wild guess and assume it will be $15/hour. That way they'll get to look pr…

> they'll get to look progressive for adopting this wage early, while mitigating their competitive disadvantage by forcing every other company to raise their wages too eventually. That's deeply cynical. In the process, they're actually paying real people more money. Which is sort of critically important if you care about this issue and not just taking pot shots at Amazon on HN.

Exactly what Amazon did on "sales tax."

Against it, until their growth created a nexus in most states and required it.

Now they have been one of the most forceful lobbyists advocating for it. They call it, "Main Street Fairness."

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#256

Post by mrhackerpoland » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

As someone who worked in Amazon warehouse, it's still so crap.

Average programmer gets paid $50-100 per hour without any health risk or lifting their ass off a chair.

And we workers are paid $15 pittance.

Salary of warehouse should atleast be equal to a web developer.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#257

Post by gonzo41 » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

bloomer wrote: post #80

gonzo41 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one individual who heads up a company that is around a little over 40% of all sales in the USA....

Where do you pull that 40% of sales from? I think you are referring to online sales, which are ~10% of sales. So a little over 4% of sales

You're right. But ~40% of online ain't nothing either.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#258

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

jopsen wrote: post #246

jacquesm wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between everybody being 'rich' and simply paying a living wage. Note how Ford got as big as it was in part not just because he made a damn good automobile but because he paid his employees a wage large enough that they could afford a car. A couple of billionaires less and a higher standard of living for the masses is a good thing.

I see no reason this is going to cause fewer billionaires. Doesn't that assume it's all a zero sum game? Could you elaborate..

Probably it won't but there is a small risk that some people will due to round-off errors end up just below the billionaire line of they start paying their employees a half decent wage. Or it might take some people a bit longer to get there. In the long run it is irrelevant.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#259

Post by YorkianTones » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

wjnc wrote: post #237

pkulak wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, does the top comment always have to be cynical? This is exactly what everyone wanted Amazon to do. Maybe it's time to suck it up and give praise where praise is due? There are also benefits to paying more salary than your competitors (no hiring shortages, best employees, low turnover, etc), so I'm not going to blindly accept that it's now in Amazon's interest to drag the rest of the industry along with them. But…

Well in this respect: Amazon chooses to link the two discussions themselves. They could have easily made their communication less open to an easy attack by pledging $15 an hour while lobbying silently, or at least communicating that on another moment. They could have noble intentions with both moves. I'd even expect them to have noble intentions since $15 seems an unreasonable large increase from $7.25. Why link to t…

While it would be in Amazon's interest to get the federal minimum wage increased after setting their internal minimum wage at $15/hr, why is this negative? Aligning business interests with the public good is brilliant IMO and I strongly feel a $15 minimum wage, plus regular increases, is for the public good. Kudos to Amazon for making the wage increase and aligning their business interests and lobbying efforts to a federal wage increase.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#260

Post by TruthSHIFT » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

MereInterest wrote: post #242

throwaway080383 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all relative. If minimum wage workers get their income doubled, but my income does not double, then they are doing better relative to me than they were before. And I do not expect my salary to double upon passing of such legislation.

That's a ridiculously cynical way to view it. First, utility does not scale linearly with income. Second, this allows for greater economic efficiency, because fewer people will be caught in bad situations with an insurmountable hurdle to get out. If you want to maintain your relative wealth, feudal times are great. The rest of us would rather increase absolute wealth.

This comment appears to be misplaced.