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The annoying habits of highly effective people

economist.com

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Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#181

Post by gph »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #137
manigandham wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're focused on the actions rather than the results. Common mistake. People become leaders by creating and commanding change that positively affects the company. Land a major deal or create a new product line that doubles revenue? You're getting to the top. Working harder than the others is part of this process, and sometimes that means you come in at 5am, but it's not a requirement nor is it something that anyone…

I would disagree and say that Elon Musk has repeatedly cited working twice as hard as everyone else as the key to his success. But the trick he seems to be following is that if you work flat-out on difficult problems until exhaustion, you spend a lot of time in flow state and consequently learn a lot faster than someone who isn't pushing themselves.

Anecdata. There were undoubtedly many other engineers working just as hard as Musk at other startups that never turned into Paypal.

You can credit him and his cohorts for having the foresight to work on products/services that turned out to be winners, especially given that he's followed that success with other potentially successful ventures. But I don't buy that work alone got Musk where he is.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#182

Post by CalRobert »

manigandham wrote: post #178
justaguyhere wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it - his boss took credit for his work, likely without his consent or even knowledge (I'd guess he came to know after his boss took credit). And yet, you want him to cover for his boss? He also mentioned his boss was incompetent. How can you trust such a person to watch out for you, even if you let it go?

Because relationships matter, and that's how you build that trust in the first place. Why not work with them, teach them, and make them better. Instead of being upset, be on their side. Almost always, they'll help you in return. Being confrontational and going around them though, will only guarantee more negative outcomes. Remember that your boss's boss and other colleagues probably don't want to deal with someone wh…

I had a new job and a pay raise lined up. It was mostly to toot my horn after feeling slighted, to be completely honest. I was young and naive at the time (and a bit less circumspect).

These days I'd just quietly polish the CV and move along. But I have a much better job now.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#183

Post by a008t »

haihaibye wrote: post #147
data_spy wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you are saying to a degree, however I've had more success than many colleagues due to me spending time every day to improve myself (usually technically). What you are saying is like saying some people are thin due to genetics, which can be true, but also many people are thin because they workout.

>> I've had more success than many colleagues due to me spending time every day to improve myself Conscientiousness is ~44% heritable. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8776880

Are you saying that each individual person cannot decide to and then become more conscientious?

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#184

Post by CalRobert »

manigandham wrote: post #178
justaguyhere wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it - his boss took credit for his work, likely without his consent or even knowledge (I'd guess he came to know after his boss took credit). And yet, you want him to cover for his boss? He also mentioned his boss was incompetent. How can you trust such a person to watch out for you, even if you let it go?

Because relationships matter, and that's how you build that trust in the first place. Why not work with them, teach them, and make them better. Instead of being upset, be on their side. Almost always, they'll help you in return. Being confrontational and going around them though, will only guarantee more negative outcomes. Remember that your boss's boss and other colleagues probably don't want to deal with someone wh…

I'm glad your life has led you to have such faith in management. I hope it's because you've been treated well. If you're early in your career and think this is how it works most places, I worry you may be in for a rude awakening.

I had a colleague who once told me "the trick to making good ideas happen is to make your boss think it was their idea". And they were completely right! It didn't stop them from quitting in frustration years later having never been promoted.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#185

Post by [deleted] »

tomgp wrote: post #127
sonnyblarney wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, some are harder than others but I can't think of a CEO job that isn't hard. It's always fraught with political risk, changing times, etc. etc.. From the 'inside' we might think it looks easy, we get a paycheque, it's all hunky-dory ... but from that top spot it's almost always hard.

How hard is it really though? If someone said to me: "you can either work in an Amazon warehouse (either shift 7.00am-5.30pm or 5.45pm-4.15am) or be the CEO of Amazon but you're going to get paid the same whichever you choose" I know which I'd do.

[deleted]

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#186

Post by jjoonathan »

coldtea wrote: post #136
sonnyblarney wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" it's a lot easier to get up at 5am, shake hands firmly, and dress for success" Let's not be superfluous. Being a CEO is hard, even the 5 am rising and 'hand shaking' parts.

> Being a CEO is hard Much easier than many other jobs, from mining and nursing to jobs that single mothers do in 2 shifts. And with much more perks, respect, personal influence, and earnings...

The hard parts are "getting to the top" and "staying there," not performing the duties.

I am sure the duties are "hard" in an absolute sense, but not relative to pay and accountability, not when compared to other jobs that are hard in an absolute sense, as you point out.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#187

Post by toomuchtodo »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #59
toomuchtodo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you ever terminated or had your contract not renewed for providing upwards feedback that was rejected?

on this thread. There is defensible feedback and there is just being contrarian. If you have a reasonable position, you may just be missing the CEO's context and they should be smart enough to see the gap and fill it in for you. Without requiring a pink slip.

Defensible feedback can still get you fired.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#188

Post by manigandham »

a_imho wrote: post #171
village-idiot wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s absolutely not a true meritocracy, that’s true. But if you’re claiming that individual contributor devs never get promoted for good work, that’s just clearly and utterly wrong.

I claim no one gets to the top for being a hard working developer. Also claim quality engineering is only loosely correlated with advancement, it is one of the less efficient ways to secure a promotion/raise. In fact, managers often have no idea who is doing a good job.

You can't get to the top doing the same job. The responsibilities change. There is no CTO who is a day-to-day developer in any sizable organization. The higher you go, the wider the impact.

Some people don't want that change and are happy where they're at. Others cant make that change. But that's what it takes. You can definitely climb the levels by excelling at what you at that particular level. If you still disagree then I would point to the generations of millions of immigrant families that arrived with nothing and earned their way to the top primarily through raw technical merit.

And yes, as stated, impact needs to be measured to be judged. If you do something that nobody knows about, then there's not much you can say.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#189

Post by maerF0x0 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #187
maerF0x0 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on this thread. There is defensible feedback and there is just being contrarian. If you have a reasonable position, you may just be missing the CEO's context and they should be smart enough to see the gap and fill it in for you. Without requiring a pink slip.

Defensible feedback can still get you fired.

In the world of at will employment, everything, anything and even "nothing" can get you fired.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#190

Post by manigandham »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #137
manigandham wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're focused on the actions rather than the results. Common mistake. People become leaders by creating and commanding change that positively affects the company. Land a major deal or create a new product line that doubles revenue? You're getting to the top. Working harder than the others is part of this process, and sometimes that means you come in at 5am, but it's not a requirement nor is it something that anyone…

I would disagree and say that Elon Musk has repeatedly cited working twice as hard as everyone else as the key to his success. But the trick he seems to be following is that if you work flat-out on difficult problems until exhaustion, you spend a lot of time in flow state and consequently learn a lot faster than someone who isn't pushing themselves.

I'm not sure what you disagree with, since it seems to fit with that I'm saying. Elon doesn't focus on the work, he focuses on the results. The effort he puts in is just what's necessary to meet those ambitious goals.

Waking up at 5am because other people are doing it won't get magically get you anywhere. However when you focus on achieving similar goals, you'll probably find yourself getting up at 5am too.

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