The annoying habits of highly effective people • Hacker News Board

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#151

Post by manigandham » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 11:55 AM UTC

a_imho wrote: post #135

manigandham wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At all? I don't know what you mean by "underclass" developers but it is common to see many devs who spearhead projects get higher titles and progress faster. There are many such examples just in SV companies. Part of it is making sure contributions are measured and noticed. People can't act on what they don't know.

I mean the blue collars sitting with other developers at lunch. We can pretend there is a meritocracy out there, but that's simply not true. Sure, in theory it might be possible to progress as a developer but in practice the roi of putting in enormous effort is simply laughable compared to the alternatives. A few percent raise realistically. Getting to the top? Not a chance.

Blue collar (in the US) refers to manual labor positions, not software developers.

There are a rare few who are extremely talented and productive individual contributors but most are not, so try to maximize output by working with others. Even small teams have managed to make big impacts in massive companies so I reject the notion that you can't do anything.

But regardless, many people have gotten very high up in many organizations through persistence and patience. It's not easy, and each level will get harder because you have more intense competition for fewer slots, but saying "not a chance" goes directly against the fact that many have done just that.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#152

Post by C1sc0cat » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 11:58 AM UTC

gaius wrote: post #106

CalRobert wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when I was early in my career and fixed an enormous flaw in ad allocation for a large online publisher. It led to easily over a million extra in revenue that year. My boss was delighted to take credit for it while also ensuring I stayed on message that it wasn't actually a result of him screwing up and being generally incompetent. I eventually figured I had nothing to lose and talked to his boss (politely…

It led to easily over a million extra in revenue that year. My boss was delighted to take credit for it Had a similar experience once. A small change generated $2m/year extra revenue. That amount just about covered the bonuses of two execs while I got the standard 3% raise. Not the only reason, but I left shortly afterwards.

I recall when I did an early web project in 94 using DSDM (agile) and two of use delivered in a month what another team had quoted 2 years for I got a £25 voucher :-)

I put it together with the one I had from my prior project and brought a rio diamond mp3 player.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#153

Post by castlecrasher2 » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 12:00 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #122

CalRobert wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when I was early in my career and fixed an enormous flaw in ad allocation for a large online publisher. It led to easily over a million extra in revenue that year. My boss was delighted to take credit for it while also ensuring I stayed on message that it wasn't actually a result of him screwing up and being generally incompetent. I eventually figured I had nothing to lose and talked to his boss (politely…

Dishonest people will be a constant obstacle, but communication is also important so others know what your contribution is. There can't be progress without measurement. Being accurate and quantifiable without becoming confrontational is an art though, but ultimately necessary. Going over people can often lead to worse results. Eventually the truth does come out but whether it's worth the time and effort is up to you.

Relationships are often more important than the right solution.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#154

Post by CalRobert » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 12:03 PM UTC

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #130

CalRobert wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when I was early in my career and fixed an enormous flaw in ad allocation for a large online publisher. It led to easily over a million extra in revenue that year. My boss was delighted to take credit for it while also ensuring I stayed on message that it wasn't actually a result of him screwing up and being generally incompetent. I eventually figured I had nothing to lose and talked to his boss (politely…

Did your boss hire you? Did your boss ask you to look at it?

No, and no.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#155

Post by C1sc0cat » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 12:04 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #10

I always laugh at this obsession with early rising. Many factory line workers wake up at 4:30 am every day, because their shift starts at 6:00 am, and somehow that does not make them billionaires.

In which country, which shift pattern ? in the developed world starting at 6 means you finish early

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#156

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 12:05 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #122

CalRobert wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when I was early in my career and fixed an enormous flaw in ad allocation for a large online publisher. It led to easily over a million extra in revenue that year. My boss was delighted to take credit for it while also ensuring I stayed on message that it wasn't actually a result of him screwing up and being generally incompetent. I eventually figured I had nothing to lose and talked to his boss (politely…

Dishonest people will be a constant obstacle, but communication is also important so others know what your contribution is. There can't be progress without measurement. Being accurate and quantifiable without becoming confrontational is an art though, but ultimately necessary. Going over people can often lead to worse results. Eventually the truth does come out but whether it's worth the time and effort is up to you.

>Eventually the truth does come out

Why does the truth eventually come out? Or is this an assumption?

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#157

Post by CalRobert » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 12:05 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #122

CalRobert wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when I was early in my career and fixed an enormous flaw in ad allocation for a large online publisher. It led to easily over a million extra in revenue that year. My boss was delighted to take credit for it while also ensuring I stayed on message that it wasn't actually a result of him screwing up and being generally incompetent. I eventually figured I had nothing to lose and talked to his boss (politely…

Dishonest people will be a constant obstacle, but communication is also important so others know what your contribution is. There can't be progress without measurement. Being accurate and quantifiable without becoming confrontational is an art though, but ultimately necessary. Going over people can often lead to worse results. Eventually the truth does come out but whether it's worth the time and effort is up to you.

I had another offer lined up when I decided to chat with the boss' boss. It went about how I expected, I took the offer, and learned a good deal about how business works in the process.

Communication is important - very important - but it's also often what people focus on when the reality is just a bigger pain in the ass ("so and so is a selfish twit who takes credit for others' work" is much harder to say than "we need to address communication issues between departments")

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#158

Post by manigandham » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 12:08 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #156

manigandham wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dishonest people will be a constant obstacle, but communication is also important so others know what your contribution is. There can't be progress without measurement. Being accurate and quantifiable without becoming confrontational is an art though, but ultimately necessary. Going over people can often lead to worse results. Eventually the truth does come out but whether it's worth the time and effort is up to you.

>Eventually the truth does come out Why does the truth eventually come out? Or is this an assumption?

Because performance is unlikely to be repeated and at some point the person who is wrongly taking credit will not be able to perform, but this can take days or decades depending on the organization.

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#159

Post by C1sc0cat » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 12:10 PM UTC

a_imho wrote: post #135

manigandham wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At all? I don't know what you mean by "underclass" developers but it is common to see many devs who spearhead projects get higher titles and progress faster. There are many such examples just in SV companies. Part of it is making sure contributions are measured and noticed. People can't act on what they don't know.

I mean the blue collars sitting with other developers at lunch. We can pretend there is a meritocracy out there, but that's simply not true. Sure, in theory it might be possible to progress as a developer but in practice the roi of putting in enormous effort is simply laughable compared to the alternatives. A few percent raise realistically. Getting to the top? Not a chance.

By definition developers etc are "professional" grades.

Unfortunately those who are the first in their family to go to uni and go into a professional job don't always get the support and informal knowledge passed to them.

One example would be read a proper newspaper - I can recall when being asked which newspaper you read was a common interview Q in the UK

Re: The annoying habits of highly effective people

#160

Post by golemotron » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 12:12 PM UTC

DecayingOrganic wrote: post #115

"The largely dominant meritocratic paradigm of highly competitive Western cultures is rooted on the belief that success is due mainly, if not exclusively, to personal qualities such as talent, intelligence, skills, smartness, efforts, willfulness, hard work or risk taking. Sometimes, we are willing to admit that a certain degree of luck could also play a role in achieving significant material success. But, as a matte…

> Such a discrepancy between a Normal distribution of inputs, with a typical scale (the average talent or intelligence), and the scale invariant distribution of outputs, suggests that some hidden ingredient is at work behind the scenes."

There's no mystery here. It's the accumulation of value by the top end outliers and recognition of the value they provide by others. Preferential attachment produces a power law.