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Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

arstechnica.com

71–80 of 156 posts

Re: Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

#71

I have actually reviewed this man's supposedly vigilante's submission to the USPTO and it is clear that this story is not what it seems. The document is a highly professional 95+ page document of complex legal argumentation that only a law firm with a small team of lawyers with a lot of prior experience doing this could have put together. It contains lots of lawyer speak and contemporary argumentation that a lay pers…

Can you share the document?

Try this link:

https://openload.co/f/RjnRdy-K4zM/90020113.pdf

Re: Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

#72
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could keep the time limits where they are, if only they required that the inventions "actually" be novel and non-obvious. They need to stop issuing patents for basic reorganizations of existing tech. Idiotic things like a "one click checkout" or "sending email" or "packaging a media file into a podcast" should have been kicked back with a big red "denied" stamp from the USPTO after about 10 minutes of wasted time…

They only check: Prior art Form requirements Legal form of the PTO s reply https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=07e3e8caed7c8dc1&from=se... They do not seem to be checking obviousness at all. And if this scares you may I suggest you never look up what determines if a public prosecutor takes a case or how social workers decide to go after children or psychologically ill people or not.

They don't look at prior art. Otherwise, they would have found all the prior art that the "vigilante engineer" found (and it's not like it was very hard to find, some was ironically linked from the patent itself).

Re: Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

#73
> The USPTO found that some claims replicated technology described in an earlier patent from lidar vendor Velodyne, while another claim was simply "impossible" and "magic."

I don't see the word "magic" anywhere in the Final Rejection document. What did they say exactly?

Re: Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I am pretty good friends with a civil engineer that did something almost exactly like this for a friend of his. He did this in his spare time and having no prior experience with the niche industry and law his friend's company operated in (botanical health supplements). The people from the federal government involved in the complaint did not believe he wasn't a specialized lawyer with a team of assistants. D…

if a dedicated civil engineer can pick up some law books and make it seem he was some high powered lawyer team, can a dedicated lawyer pick up some engineering books and build a bridge that can survive SF's 'Big One'?

Because of the internet - information is much more readily available. Nowadays a layman can just search all the information and perform similarly.

Re: Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

#75
post #7

I'm impressed that the random engineer was willing to put up $6k of his own money to challenge the patent, despite not benefiting from the decision in any way.

I disagree that he did not benefit. When a bad patent is invalidated, everyone in society benefits. That so-called "invention" is no longer exclusively locked up in the hands of a single company.

And it's quite possible he's holding shares of Waymo's competitors, no?

Re: Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only check: Prior art Form requirements Legal form of the PTO s reply https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=07e3e8caed7c8dc1&from=se... They do not seem to be checking obviousness at all. And if this scares you may I suggest you never look up what determines if a public prosecutor takes a case or how social workers decide to go after children or psychologically ill people or not.

They don't look at prior art. Otherwise, they would have found all the prior art that the "vigilante engineer" found (and it's not like it was very hard to find, some was ironically linked from the patent itself).

They do look at prior art but remember they only have basically a "google search" type of tool so often find so-called duplicates that are not (because they have the same words in the title maybe) and miss ones that are the same because they are called something else.

Just a very poor system for the money it costs and the potential outcomes to businesses who can literally go bust over a wrong decision.

Re: Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

#77
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Just like how engineers certify building plans to ensure the laws of physics are respected, patents really should need to go through some sort of peer certification review - at the submitter's expense - before it gets in front of an examiner!

Maybe patents should come with a prototype.

Maybe your competitor finds out while you are trying to build the prototype, builds one more quickly and gets the patent before you!

Re: Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

#78
post #77
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe patents should come with a prototype.

Maybe your competitor finds out while you are trying to build the prototype, builds one more quickly and gets the patent before you!

I don't think it would be too hard to enable some kind of preliminary filing while still requiring a functional prototype.

Re: Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

#79
post #64
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does look that way but then if that's the case why didn't anybody at Uber point that out during the lawsuit? From the article: >The patent describes how a laser diode can be configured to emit pulses of laser light using a circuit that includes an inductor and a gallium nitride transistor. That chance discovery helped spark a lawsuit in which Waymo accused Uber of patent infringement and of using lidar secrets sup…

Real life example from someone I know: They worked at a company which was only allowed to use certain DRM stuff if they used patent-protected encryption within the hardware. Therefore he invented some and worked with the company lawyer to get a patent. The patent lawyers’ job includes making the patent as general as possible. The lawyer did not understand the technology, and while broadening the patent claim they acc…

This is a good answer to the question "why did Waymo have a patent that could be invalidated by one guy with $6000?"

But it's a terrible answer to the question "if one guy with $6000 could get this patent invalidated, why couldn't Uber?"

Re: Vigilante engineer stops Waymo from patenting key lidar technology

#80
post #43

I have actually reviewed this man's supposedly vigilante's submission to the USPTO and it is clear that this story is not what it seems. The document is a highly professional 95+ page document of complex legal argumentation that only a law firm with a small team of lawyers with a lot of prior experience doing this could have put together. It contains lots of lawyer speak and contemporary argumentation that a lay pers…

If you are willing to sink the time into it it it not impossible for a smart person to do legal work that appears to require a professional lawyer.

Having done both, I would in fact argue that it is almost exactly as easy as using books and self-study to create software that appears to require a professional developer.
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