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New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

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Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#361

Happened to a female friend flying from Toronto to visit me in Mexico. Because she had a connecting flight in US, a US agent went through her phone. (Classic mistake of entering the US unless absolutely neccessary) Guy was reading her Tinder messages and accusing her of being a prostitute. He brought up some saucy messages and would say things like “girls don’t do this kind of stuff for free...” Finally handed her ba…

Sadly, the motive there was probably he found her hot, would hit that, was aggravated at reading her Tinder messages and finding her even more hot because of it and was pissed off that there was no way in hell he would ever get a shot at being with her, so he felt some need to piss all over her, blame her for making him hot and bothered with no immediate means to get relief, yadda.

This is an essential element of situational crap that I am referring to when I complain about sexism in the world. Meanwhile, other people seem to think I mean "Men who firmly believe women should be barefoot and pregnant and who have some conscious intent to prevent them from having real careers." or some nonsense along those lines.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there one? Are you looking for: * Don't leave the country? * Refuse and have the phone cracked anyway? * Refuse letting go of the phone and get arrested?

I would say "don't go to Canada", but I'm not sure how common this is across the world. Does anyone have a sense of how common this draconian approach is? I have a US passport and have been to about 25 countries on six continents and have never experienced this, but borders see such mind bogglingly high numbers pass through that I wouldn't say I have a robust set of data points.

Your home country is pretty good at this stuff too. Had this happen to me in 2016 on a business trip, but I just had my work phone and laptop with me and didn't care too much. What was annoying were the comments I got when stating I'm a software dev and visiting for work (along the lines of "we have our own capable people so we don't need you taking our jobs"). I was at that time working for a US company's branch in Switzerland. Not too fond of visiting again. Luckily I'm not working there anymore.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#364
post #4

It's troubling to watch one of the most amazing places on earth transform itself into a totalitarian purgatory. Access to physical phone/laptop is only the first step -- mark my words. Big Brother's bureaucrats are never satiated. Next, we will have demands for passwords and unrestricted access to : email, facebook, photo sharing, hacker news posts, social media, etc. I see sudden spike in the market for burner phone…

Twenty years ago, Nicholas Negroponte pointed out the irony that when he passed through Singapore customs, they searched his atoms but not his bits. Is being searched before you get on a plane or enter a customs checkpoint some kind of hideous infringement of your civil liberties? No! There’s no problem with this in principle. The problem is that it’s silly, and it causes a privacy and security violation while not ac…

> Is being searched before you get on a plane or enter a customs checkpoint some kind of hideous infringement of your civil liberties? No!

No. But they are looking for items that would make the flight unsafe, as well as controlled substances.

If they are searching your bits, they are not looking for either of these things, they are looking for thought crimes. Not only now, but in your past.

There is a big difference.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#365
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's the ruling group? AFAIK, everyone passes through the same border agents...

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread. And anyway, my understanding is that if you're rich enough to charter a private jet, or to own one, you skip a lot of the border formalities.

No you don't... It's just another agent. Granted, this one sees very little traffic each day, so probably less inclined to annoy you out of spite.

Perhaps if you carry a diplomatic passport, that's a different story altogether.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#366
post #125

> "It is a file-by-file [search] on your phone. We're not going into 'the cloud'. We'll examine your phone while it's on flight mode," Customs spokesperson Terry Brown said. What files are they looking for on the device? I mean, it's not like a terrorist will have a plan_to_place_bomb.doc file on their device, so what's the point? What file could there possibly be on any device that will threaten the security? And ho…

One possibility is to catch dumb criminals who have draft messages stored locally via email client that have illicit content 2012 source - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2012/11/12...

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a border, you have no rights.

But I wonder why. If I am a resident of a country, why is that my rights suddenly go away at the border? Why is it that I have rights when I step out of the airport but when I am in it, I have no rights. I am not criticizing what you said, I am curious.

Because they can. Civilisation spent centuries building up rights and due process, and then the authorities suddenly decided none of it mattered in this specific context because we let them. We should be livid. It's an absolute disgrace and an embarrassment to post-enlightenment humanity.

I can't use the visa waiver program to travel to the US because I was arrested once. Not convicted of any crime, mind you, just arrested. In the rest of society it's a pretty strong principle that guilt is decided in courts, not by police officers. No matter: anything that makes you seem less than the lowest possible risk is enough to deny you something. No presumption of innocence, no visa waiver program for me.

My girlfriend's mother has applied for a family visa that would allow her to immigrate to my country (where her daughter lives) permanently. The application takes several years. In the meantime she applied for a tourist visa to visit us for Christmas later this year. It was denied. We can only speculate why, but of course I suspect that since she has demonstrated a desire to immigrate permanently, the authorities consider her at risk of overstaying the visa. A mother who has done nothing wrong can't visit her daughter for Christmas because of this, and it makes me furious. She has no intention of overstaying: if this is why they rejected the visa it is again an assumption of guilt instead of one of innocence.

I wonder if there is any way to make it an election issue in any country. Parties seem to be unanimous on the topic, and most people don't travel, so it's probably not much of a pull for votes. Influential people travel more though.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#368
post #85

This is an important issue cryptographers and security minded people often overlook: the strongest cryptography is irrelevant if it opens you to such social harassment. What we need is practical cryptography. I have found practical success by booting from an encrypted Linux partition that has absolutely nothing relevant on it, with a weak password I can always enter when requested by big guys with guns. Unbeknown to…

To be very honest, I find the methodology very similar to what drug trafficker would do to hide their drugs. And I don't think this method will end well for all parties either way. If it works, customs officers cannot find actual illegal contents, and criminals walk free through customs. If customs officers somehow detects you are doing this, you risk obstructing security measures.

If it works, customs officers cannot find actual illegal contents, and criminals walk free through customs.

"Illegal contents", as in what? Unflattering cartoons of the president? A spreadsheet marked "cocaine delivery schedule"? Why is this on the alleged criminal's phone while she's crossing the border? Has she never heard of the internet? No real criminal could be caught by any of this buffoonery. Lots of normal people whom the state would like to harass will be harassed, while wasting a great deal of money, which is the point.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#369
post #4

It's troubling to watch one of the most amazing places on earth transform itself into a totalitarian purgatory. Access to physical phone/laptop is only the first step -- mark my words. Big Brother's bureaucrats are never satiated. Next, we will have demands for passwords and unrestricted access to : email, facebook, photo sharing, hacker news posts, social media, etc. I see sudden spike in the market for burner phone…

Twenty years ago, Nicholas Negroponte pointed out the irony that when he passed through Singapore customs, they searched his atoms but not his bits. Is being searched before you get on a plane or enter a customs checkpoint some kind of hideous infringement of your civil liberties? No! There’s no problem with this in principle. The problem is that it’s silly, and it causes a privacy and security violation while not ac…

Searching me for the means to harm people on the plane, bring it down etc is one thing.

Searching everything I've ever said or done online, my personal photos etc etc. is an entirely different proposition.

There are huge problems with this in principle!

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#370
post #349

This happened to me driving from the US into Canada with my significant other on a short vacation. After some routine questioning, the agent asked for our phones and passwords. Naturally, I hesitated and wanted to know why he needed to go through our phones. He didn't give a reason, but said if I refuse they'd hold us until their forensics team cracks the phone password anyway. I wanted to make a bigger deal about it…

I drove from Detroit to Toronto via Windsor, and was subjected to a vehicle search and questioning. I pulled up my hotel reservation at the agents' request, and he snatched my phone out of my hands and started going through my emails. He couldn't wrap his head around why anyone would want to take a roadtrip to toronto for an extended weekend, other than to run drugs. I've also been interrogated when flying into Canad…

Try being a Canadian and going the other way!
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