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New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

radionz.co.nz

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Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#331
post #128
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also there could be explosives/drugs and other stuff in Luggage. What is the threat of shit on my phone?

Your `/docs/plan-to-hijack-airnz-plane.txt` file might be seen as slightly dodgy?

The problem is, `/docs/plan-to-hijack-airnz-plane.txt` can easily be downloaded from the cloud once you're in-country, so you can just not keep it on your phone. This is a significant difference compared to bring in explosives (as an example), where searching your luggage would actually be effective.

Again, this law will primarily inconvenience / harm law-abiding folks, while not preventing the "bad guys" from doing what they want.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#332
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's true for all encryption and privacy technology, it has dual use. We as a society must find the right balance and say, ok, there's no reasonable justification for owning 1 pound of plutonium, but there is a legitimate case for high encryption and privacy. This forum largely believes that the balance struck by New Zealand - that you don't have the right to data privacy when traveling - is completely unaccept…

Let me ask you this hypothetical question instead: What if we have a "physical encryption" technology that allows encrypting physical objects so that X-ray scanners, drug detecting methods or metal detectors cannot see through them? Would customs be allowed to ask for the decryption key? Or should the customs just ignore whatever encrypted inside?

You can't blow a hole in an aeroplane's fuselage with somebody's mobile browser history.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#333
post #4

It's troubling to watch one of the most amazing places on earth transform itself into a totalitarian purgatory. Access to physical phone/laptop is only the first step -- mark my words. Big Brother's bureaucrats are never satiated. Next, we will have demands for passwords and unrestricted access to : email, facebook, photo sharing, hacker news posts, social media, etc. I see sudden spike in the market for burner phone…

totalitarian purgatory Nitpick: in Catholic dogma purgatory is a place of purification, those in purgatory know that they are there for a reason and only for a certain time, afterwards they enter heaven. Hell on the other hand, is for eternity and ugly. That's why the two are easily distinguished in their iconography, both involve imagery of flames, but souls in purgatory look joyful and those in hell look despondent…

Honestly, thank you for explaining that. It's nitpicking, but i don't think learning is ever a bad thing.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People did not carry around all their banking statements all the time No, but you definitely needed to have your banking information on you when traveling for an extended period of time, especially internationally. >It’s an order of magnitude problem I think we're talking past each other. This was my "data organization" point. All the data is now housed together. > not out of any logical extension for existing poli…

Basically I don’t think that this logically extends from suitcases to full phone access in the same way I don’t think that the right to bear arms allows you to train and arm a private army with tanks and fighter jets. At some point, it stops being a logical extension of a rule and starts being of a different kind due to changes in magnitude. Here, a country may be concerned about objects being physically brought into…

>Basically I don’t think that this logically extends from suitcases to full phone access

I get that you don't think that is the case, but you're not really explaining why you believe so.

> but to be concerned about a persons digital life is a concern of a different kind

But as I said, they're just inspecting the same thing they've always been inspecting. The medium is different and it incidentally happens to be housed with a bunch of different data that historically was kept separate, purely for technological reasons.

You're implying that the cause here is "concern over a person's digital life" but you present no statement or proof that's what these policies are actually aimed at. I think it's fairly obvious that it's a simple reconfiguration of a policy to adapt to changing habits. And if it's not obvious I think the statements from government agencies explaining these policy changes shed further light on why it's being done. But you need to have a reason you believe this to not be the case. It can't just be.

Let's review some statements that hit on some of the above points:

Here's Canada, actively instructing people about to handle sensitive information: https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topics/public-safety-and-l...

>Individuals entering Canada who are concerned about how this policy might be applied may wish to exercise caution by either limiting the devices they travel with or removing sensitive personal information from devices that could be searched. Another potential measure is to store it on a secure device in Canada or in a secure cloud which would allow you to retrieve it securely once you arrive at your destination.

Here's New Zealand's review of why they're changing the law: https://www.customs.govt.nz/globalassets/documents/c--e-subm...:

From page 63:

>Customs’ interest in relation to digital files is in the following enforcement areas:

> * Intercepting prohibited or restricted items

> * Identifying infringements of intellectual property rights

From page 64:

>Our Act does enable us to enforce the law in relation to the following prohibited goods when they are in a digital format:

> * Objectionable material and images – “objectionable” has a very broad definition under the Films, Videos, and Publications Classification Act 1993, and can capture material ranging from violent or degrading sexual images to material that encourages criminal acts or terrorism

> * Designs for weapons or for other items of potential military use

> * Designs and blueprints for making nuclear, biological, chemical or radiological weapons.

Pretty far away from "concerns about a person's digital life."

>in the same way I don’t think that the right to bear arms allows you to train and arm a private army with tanks and fighter jets.

This analogy in no way is relevant to data organization and transmission. It's pretty hyperbolic and distracts from any point you are trying to make.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#336

This happened to me driving from the US into Canada with my significant other on a short vacation. After some routine questioning, the agent asked for our phones and passwords. Naturally, I hesitated and wanted to know why he needed to go through our phones. He didn't give a reason, but said if I refuse they'd hold us until their forensics team cracks the phone password anyway. I wanted to make a bigger deal about it…

I had this happen at the Canadian border once, and of course I never used that phone again; who knows what they did to it.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall a story from long ago: user is requested to boot their laptop by airline security. They boot, which drops to a linux (bsd?) command line. Agent is not pleased. User sets PS1 so the prompt now looks like DOS. Agent is satisfied (they may just have been satisfied that the device worked, but this story dates from when a DOS prompt was a believable thing for someone to recognize as "computer" )

This story doesn't sound beleivable. As soon as the agent starts attempting commands, they'd see it's not DOS.

But they saw it was a working computer. Airline security don't care what operating system your computer runs, they care if the laptop has been hollowed out and filled with C4.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#338
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you pull this stunt in the USA, I hope you enjoy your five-year sentence in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison and the effect that the permanent felony conviction on your record will have on your employment prospects and the exercise of your civil rights. Misleading, or concealing information from, a federal agent is a felony.

Like we've asked before, could you please start commenting in the spirit of this site, which is to gratify our intellectual curiosity? Gratuitous inflammation doesn't belong and will get your account banned. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Since you are here already, maybe I know why is the author of this comment not given warning or ban for personal attacks?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18112863

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we also download physical objects after we go through the checkpoint?

You can already "download guns". http://time.com/5344265/3d-printed-guns-legal/ I would be surprised if that's not possible for drugs or explosives in 5-10 years. Edit: Looks like they are already possible or at least on the way: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/01/you-could-soon-be-man... https://all3dp.com/custom-shaped-explosives-us-navy-3d-print...

You can "download" crappy, not very effective guns. And you still need to obtain the ammo (the actually lethal part) the old-fashioned way.

I would very much be surprised if it becomes possible for drugs or explosives any time within my lifetime. Chemistry and physics just don't work that way.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#340
post #111

I don't know how others feel, but if I kept control of the device I would feel much more comfortable with this process. The fact that they can make me unlock the device then take it out of my sight and do unknown things to it means I can no longer trust the device or any of its files (eg private keys, access tokens, etc that may be stored on it). If they sit down with me and allow me to maintain control of the device…

Oh yeah, being forced to knowingly show my privates to a stranger is slightly better than the stranger taking that look on their own without my knowledge and consent. Both are still bad.

The difference is that, if they take your phone away, there is nothing stopping them from putting child pornography (or terrorism plans, or a keylogger) on it without your knowledge.
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