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New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

radionz.co.nz

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Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#281

Post by komali2 »

NullPrefix wrote: post #264
jliptzin wrote: post #233

This happened to me driving from the US into Canada with my significant other on a short vacation. After some routine questioning, the agent asked for our phones and passwords. Naturally, I hesitated and wanted to know why he needed to go through our phones. He didn't give a reason, but said if I refuse they'd hold us until their forensics team cracks the phone password anyway. I wanted to make a bigger deal about it…

>...didn't want to ruin our vacation so I complied. >It ruined the vacation for me... So what was the lesson?

Border agents are terrible vanguards of a country tourism board.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#282

Post by tomjen3 »

gdhbcc wrote: post #86
plg wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

question: what countries on border entry can demand usernames/passwords to online services?

All countries can demand it. They are sovereign. Are you asking which countries do demand it?

That would be hilarious:

Room Temperature IQ Goon (RTG): Give me your facebook password

Me: I don't know my facebook password

RTG: How do you login?

Me: I have a service to hold all my passwords

RTG: What is that service and what is the password

Me: Lastpass, but I don't have the second password

RTG: Second password?

Me: Yes, it requires me to use a U2F token to generate a second password

RTG: What is a U2F token and give it to me

Me: I leave it at home for security

RTG: Give me your phone

Me: Hands over 3310

RTG: Your real phone

Me: I don't travel internationally with a phone that have any data on it that I care about.

Of course the real solution is that I don't travel anywhere.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#283

Post by gureddio »

v_lisivka wrote: post #222
yholio wrote: post #85

This is an important issue cryptographers and security minded people often overlook: the strongest cryptography is irrelevant if it opens you to such social harassment. What we need is practical cryptography. I have found practical success by booting from an encrypted Linux partition that has absolutely nothing relevant on it, with a weak password I can always enter when requested by big guys with guns. Unbeknown to…

OMG. Just use two SSD's and turn off second in the BIOS. Or use same technique as Chinese fakers are using to create fake flash cards or SSD's: just reduce size of drive directly in the controller.

... if your laptop has space for two SSDs

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#284

Post by komali2 »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #261
3pt14159 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are bad agents everywhere. Just a numbers game after a while. I've done that border tons of times with no issue. Though, I will say that I take protective measures before I travel anyway. It's pretty easy to log out of an iCloud account and there is nothing on my computer that I care about that isn't backed up somewhere.

It's not bad agents, it's bad laws.

It's both. See above about the agent commenting on a girl's tinder messages. They also are horribly racist to non English speakers.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#285

Post by buboard »

davezatch wrote: post #57
plink wrote: post #7

Privacy Commissioner John Edwards had some influence over the drafting of the legislation and said he was "pretty comfortable" with where the law stood... "You know when you come into the country that you can be asked to open your suitcase and that a Customs officer can look at everything in there." Evidently, severe brain damage is no hindrance to securing a commissioner's appointment in New Zealand.

Devil’s advocate: what _is_ wrong with that logic? If we accept that customs can search our persons or luggage as a condition of our entering a given country, what is it about digital materials that makes them off limits?

Primarily because you are not preinformed for the search. There is an expectation that your luggage may be searched, hence you dont put your favorute fetish items if you are easily embarrased. Most people don’t expect to have their sexting history searched (and possibly easily copied). Even if it has become legal, it is not a widely known practice, which means that in practice it violates human rights. Someone should take this to court, even if the only gain to be expected is Making it widely known, and -hopefully- people will stop voting to enable these authoritarian practices.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#286

Post by patmcc »

jliptzin wrote: post #233

This happened to me driving from the US into Canada with my significant other on a short vacation. After some routine questioning, the agent asked for our phones and passwords. Naturally, I hesitated and wanted to know why he needed to go through our phones. He didn't give a reason, but said if I refuse they'd hold us until their forensics team cracks the phone password anyway. I wanted to make a bigger deal about it…

>>It ruined the vacation for me, and I've stopped visiting Canada because of how disgusted I felt afterwards.

I don't blame you for this at all, but I will say this is bi-directional; as a Canadian, when I travel to the US, I get the same bullshit questioning and phone snooping on occasion. The current controversy on border crossing is that, despite marijuana becoming legalized in Canada shortly, if you admit to smoking it when asked, you'll be barred from entering the US. So seems to me that both countries just love love love the opportunity to flex their power against people who have no recourse. If you want to see what cops do when they don't have to follow any rules on unreasonable searches, probable cause, reasonable suspicion, etc. then just look to our borders.

I wish our governments could get together and sort this junk out, but that would mean both agencies would have to lose some of their power to "secure the border" so it'll never go anywhere.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#287

Post by tomjen3 »

clarkmoody wrote: post #214
jsilence wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about "probable cause" or "innocent until proven guilty"? Why would I have to accept being strip searched without a warrant?

At a border, you have no rights.

Which is something we should never have accepted in the the first place, and something that should change immediately.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#288

Post by DavidHm »

eesmith wrote: post #130
gdhbcc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All countries can demand it. They are sovereign. Are you asking which countries do demand it?

I think you should read that as: "Which countries have laws which allow border inspectors to demand usernames/passwords to online services?" Those which do demand it are a subset of those which can demand it. Your sovereignty argument is such an extreme interpretation of the question that it's almost certainly not what plg had in mind - if plg did have it in mind, then I find it hard to believe that question would ha…

Depends on whether you consider the ICCPR and in particular articles 6-8 as superseding country sovereignty or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Covenant_on_Civi...

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#289

Post by kadendogthing »

Nullabillity wrote: post #273
kadendogthing wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure it's extremely import to inspect what people are bringing into the country. Besides the financial... tools that people can bring into a country there's a whole host of other items that can negatively impact the country, and not just from a social aspect: * Invasive species. This includes plants, not just animals. * Drugs * In times of known or potential epidemics, screening people for obvious sickness…

1) All of those also apply to inter-region travel within the same country. Should those have guarded borders too? Shouldn't there be guarded borders between neighborhoods in the same city, just to make sure that nothing bad spreads? Hell, why not run around "inspecting" people's houses at random, just in case? 2) None of those are digital, so your earlier justification is moot anyway.

I'm well aware none of those are digital. That was exactly the point, to provide reasons outside the scope of the current conversation, since it's clearly being debated in this thread. I don't think you can really debate the above reasons therefore there is absolutely a need to search you as a person and your belongings when crossing a border.

As to your first statement, ignoring how disingenuous it is, if those standards did have a reasonable justification for applying them to inter-regional travel the fact that we do not apply those policies to inter-regional travel does not negate the justification for applying those policies on the international border. It's not binary.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#290

Post by SirYandi »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #261
3pt14159 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are bad agents everywhere. Just a numbers game after a while. I've done that border tons of times with no issue. Though, I will say that I take protective measures before I travel anyway. It's pretty easy to log out of an iCloud account and there is nothing on my computer that I care about that isn't backed up somewhere.

It's not bad agents, it's bad laws.

It's a mix of both, like most things.
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