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The reverse job applicant

reversejobapplication.com

291–300 of 312 posts

Re: The reverse job applicant

#291
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quant hedge funds, maybe? I know a few that suck up physics and math PhD's dissuaded by dwindling academia/research. Perhaps it's a soul-draining job, but the pay is good. Most likely you will have to program, but since you're here I don't think that will be a problem.

I end up talking to recruiters from D.E. Shaw just about every six months. One time I showed up at a conference Sun put on in the city and asked a question about using the hardware for main memory databases and that got the attention of one of them. Hedge funds are pretty cool and pretty lucrative, but the only thing I really want to do now is information extraction, semantic databases, stuff like that. Finish the jo…

So it's not about not being able to find a job if I read this correctly. You just haven't found one that will make you do exactly what you want to do.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, if I was an employer (and I have been from time to time) I'd probably read this, smile wryly, and move on. I am an employer and that's exactly what I did. This is amusing, but I would never want a person like this to work for me. He's basically saying "I know nothing and proud of it... but I can learn! I can pick things up fast! Hire me! Why wouldn't anyone hire me dammit?"

> He's basically saying "I know nothing and proud of it…" No he isn't. He just deliberately, explicitly refused to tell. I'd say this is a weak evidence that he indeed doesn't know anything. However, he clearly demonstrated writing skills. This piece is engaging and to the point. The ideas exposed are clear. Both emotions and facts are effectively communicated. To me, that's mildly strong evidence that he does know s…

> Ask yourself: say you see 2 applicants, one who currently has a job, and one who hasn't for several months. Which one will you most probably want to hire?

The one who hasn't, obviously. (S)he's had several months to develop undirected skillsets on personal projects, is less likely to be burned out, and would be far more likely to happily accept a lower offer.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#293
Back when I was first trying to break into my field, the one thing that always struck me as completely ridiculous was the fact that almost all job postings for entry level positions required quite a bit of experience.

I ended up getting my first computer related job by helping a school get some stuff setup while I was out of work. They ended up offering me a job because they needed some part time help and I had done a good job with the volunteer work I had already done for them. I worked at the school for a little while which gave me some experience to put on my resume. After getting that initial job, it's been pretty easy to find additional jobs.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#294
post #229

I'd suggest that you generate your own experience if a lack of experience is a problem. Create iPhone apps that find movie listings, create websites that do something, put it on github, create a LinkedIn profiles, (it's a tech recruiter's best friend) and get connections with everyone you know, employed or not. Gain a reputation on IRC channels, stack overflow, forums and other programmer communities. Be willing to t…

> get up to speed to an experienced developer in a month or two

Ho! You are not a fan of the "become an expert in ten years" theory?

Re: The reverse job applicant

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"My generation seems entitled because the reality we are now confronting does not match up with the fantasy world that adults have been preparing us for for our entire lives." I couldn't agree more. I can't help but feel the generation our generation spawns will be a really cynical bunch ;)

I have seen people become cynical in the face of consistent joblessness despite many applications. It worries me because it could cause permanent negative attitudinal shift with bright people -- the early parts of a career can be very formative, and it's not good if, instead of a good, supportive and developmental manager at a stable company, people feel stuck with bad bosses or cannot escape the tyranny of unemploym…

Perhaps I have missed something, but I don't see any contact info in your profile. The email field on the profile page is private to each user - only the about: field is public.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#296
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot explain how much you have hit the nail on the head. I graduated from college in May and have been having the exact experience you describe. My generation has been described as entitled. Quite frankly, I do feel as if I am owed something, and that society at large has failed to keep its end of the bargain. For my entire life, I was told that if I work hard in school, bust my ass to go to a good university and…

Society didn't lie to you, society never struck a bargain with you. Your parents may have lied to you, maybe your teachers too. Whoever it was that lied, it wasn't us . It probably wasn't malicious, some people are/were genuinely extremely misguided about how the world operates (protip: not as differently as before). Here's what happened: you abdicated your responsibility in one of the most important aspects of your…

I'd add to that networking, if you have a solid network of friends, peers and acquaintances that all know your great at what you do, all it really takes is a "hey guys, looking for some work in x, let me know if anythings going" on Twitter ect to make things happen.

Add to that don't stop building things and perfecting your craft, much more valuable than just sending out resumes and you might just find a way to produce a bit of income in the process making your situation less dire.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you think society is unkind because it's tough with a degree, I'm not sure what you'd think about what it's like without one. :-)

Well, you'd have 4 or 5 years of job experience, 4 or 5 years of a salary and no student loans.

I think he's referring to when you join the workforce at the same time your peers are going off to college. Sure you might come out ahead of them in 4 or 5 years if you are driven but your likely to be in line from some fairly menial work to start off.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's basically saying "I know nothing and proud of it…" No he isn't. He just deliberately, explicitly refused to tell. I'd say this is a weak evidence that he indeed doesn't know anything. However, he clearly demonstrated writing skills. This piece is engaging and to the point. The ideas exposed are clear. Both emotions and facts are effectively communicated. To me, that's mildly strong evidence that he does know s…

> Ask yourself: say you see 2 applicants, one who currently has a job, and one who hasn't for several months. Which one will you most probably want to hire? The one who hasn't, obviously. (S)he's had several months to develop undirected skillsets on personal projects, is less likely to be burned out, and would be far more likely to happily accept a lower offer.

That would be great if you actually mean it and are in position take decisions to this effect). Unfortunately, to most employers, unemployed applicants smell as if they stopped bathing the day they stopped working.

The only solution I see to this problem is lying on your employment record. But I must admit I'm uncomfortable giving this advice.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#299

If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. I would encourage you to correct this, as it is a mistake. I know it's tongue in cheek, but my god does the current generation not have any humility at all? This is going to ruin your world v…

You know nothing of his situation and yet are willing to cast aspersions on his character. Before you go tarring a whole generation with the "entitled" label perhaps a little context from the generation that lacks humility might be in order. Friends of mine are in the same position as this guy. They recently graduated with good degrees from a decent university with no allusions that finding a job was going to be anyt…

I think this is the key: "They feel like they've done everything that was expected of them."

I understand this feeling but it is misguided. The reason is that their understanding of what's actually expected is not correct, because the expectation they follow has not been provided by the people who will ultimately hire them. The understanding of expectations is often provided by councillors or teachers/professors at high schools and universities (or parents). These people in general are horribly out of touch with the true expectations of an employer or requirements of entry level positions in the particular industry of interest. As a result students misguidedly follow these expectations and are suddenly struck with reality when they are done.

The reality is that universities do not train students for the work place. They are money making operations whose goal it is to provide an education as a service (note: that an education from a university does not equate to workplace readiness). This means that if they think that they can attract students with a new buzzwordy program, they'll create that program and tell the students about all of the great opportunities that exist in industry (e.g. nanoscience or nanotechnology), when in fact no such opportunities exist. Universities are completely out of touch with the needs and desires of industry (one counter would be some eng. disciplines) or at the least their primary focus is not on those students who exit the program but rather almost entirely those students entering the program (more fuel for the machine). The same goes for more traditional programs (e.g. physics or CS), I've spoken to many professors over the years about job opportunities and they always talk about academia (which they know well) and the nebulous industry.

My advice to students is to clarify what it actually takes to enter an industry early in the academic process. Perform market research and actually talk to people about their experiences (look at early resumes and CVs if you can). At the same time think about building up your CV with projects/initiatives/etc. that strengthen your softer skills (communication, leadership, project management, etc.). I didn't do the former very well but I did do the latter and it has helped me immensely (you must be able to distinguish yourself from the pack). Also work at building your network, this is key. Then once you get that job, look at the next rung up and "rinse, lather and repeat" the above process.

Even if you want to go the startup route I would still recommend the above unsolicited advice.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#300
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I end up talking to recruiters from D.E. Shaw just about every six months. One time I showed up at a conference Sun put on in the city and asked a question about using the hardware for main memory databases and that got the attention of one of them. Hedge funds are pretty cool and pretty lucrative, but the only thing I really want to do now is information extraction, semantic databases, stuff like that. Finish the jo…

So it's not about not being able to find a job if I read this correctly. You just haven't found one that will make you do exactly what you want to do.

yes
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