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Do You Know Cobol? If So, There Might Be a Job for You

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Re: Do You Know Cobol? If So, There Might Be a Job for You

#11

Post by crdoconnor »

tumetab1 wrote: post #9
guitarbill wrote: post #5

> The problem is that Cobol isn’t popular with new programmers. Enough with the COBOL shortage myth. Don't be fooled, not being popular is not the problem. The problem is COBOL jobs aren't competitive, they often even pay worse than other tech jobs. That's why they are either being outsourced or offered to 60 year olds in their spare time. (So arguably they're not that mission-critical, either.) But then who is writi…

The answer to why would news paper would run a bad story usually is just selling ADs. Usually you see more of this on non-mainstream topics or stories that don't get much traction because there will be no backlash.

Uh, usually it's hastily reprinted press releases and journalists with a tight deadline.

In this case it's almost too obvious whom the press release was sent out on behalf of ("Cobol Cowboys").

Re: Do You Know Cobol? If So, There Might Be a Job for You

#13

Post by sevensor »

sbr464 wrote: post #4

I’m curious why there aren’t more x -> x conversion/adapter tools available. Most languages have the same core data models/abstract concepts, if there really is an enterprise/business demand for a product, usually some company would come up with a solution. Personally I’m curious about COBOL and learning from it’s design, but I’m intrigued by this question in general.

> Most languages have the same core data models/abstract concepts

There was a post on here not too long ago about COBOL's decimal arithmetic -- if you're not careful, your Java / Python / Ocaml is going to give you different numbers. So on the "core data model" front, there's more than meets the eye. Add to that the barrier to entry of working on mainframes: even if you install an emulator and play around with COBOL, you don't have a big COBOL codebase to work with, so you have no idea what you're going to see in a production system that was written 45 years ago.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17636029

Not that I really believe we're headed for a COBOL crisis. COBOL systems will no doubt continue to rust in place and eventually reach irrelevance as they're decommissioned one by one during horribly mismanaged bank mergers. The exception is the federal government of the U.S., which will surely continue operating its COBOL systems until the end of time.

Re: Do You Know Cobol? If So, There Might Be a Job for You

#14

Post by bovermyer »

mbrumlow wrote: post #12

I really dislike slotting things down to a language. If you are proficient in the underlying programming concepts, the language simply does not matter with the right amount of motivation.

So someone with a strong competency in C#, PHP, or JavaScript should be able to write Assembly?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I feel like there's a piece there that's missing.

Re: Do You Know Cobol? If So, There Might Be a Job for You

#15

Post by pavel_lishin »

bovermyer wrote: post #14
mbrumlow wrote: post #12

I really dislike slotting things down to a language. If you are proficient in the underlying programming concepts, the language simply does not matter with the right amount of motivation.

So someone with a strong competency in C#, PHP, or JavaScript should be able to write Assembly? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I feel like there's a piece there that's missing.

Why not? With training, of course, and time to ramp up.

Assembly isn't Linear A.

Re: Do You Know Cobol? If So, There Might Be a Job for You

#16

Post by pavel_lishin »

MatthewWilkes wrote: post #10

I can't tell if this is in the article as it's paywalled, but a company in York recently put up an advert for £20k/year for Cobol programmers with no programming experience required, doubling at the end of the training period.

Is that a livable wage there?

Re: Do You Know Cobol? If So, There Might Be a Job for You

#17

Post by raxxorrax »

bovermyer wrote: post #14
mbrumlow wrote: post #12

I really dislike slotting things down to a language. If you are proficient in the underlying programming concepts, the language simply does not matter with the right amount of motivation.

So someone with a strong competency in C#, PHP, or JavaScript should be able to write Assembly? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I feel like there's a piece there that's missing.

> I feel like there's a piece there that's missing.

COBOL? :)

Re: Do You Know Cobol? If So, There Might Be a Job for You

#18

Post by fcbrooklyn »

bovermyer wrote: post #14
mbrumlow wrote: post #12

I really dislike slotting things down to a language. If you are proficient in the underlying programming concepts, the language simply does not matter with the right amount of motivation.

So someone with a strong competency in C#, PHP, or JavaScript should be able to write Assembly? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I feel like there's a piece there that's missing.

Yeah, I don't think it'd be that big of a stretch. I knew someone about 25 years ago who went from creating applications in visual basic, to working on device drivers (often involving assembly). There's a learning curve obviously, but working in assembly and working in js have plenty in common.

Re: Do You Know Cobol? If So, There Might Be a Job for You

#19

Post by roenxi »

bovermyer wrote: post #14
mbrumlow wrote: post #12

I really dislike slotting things down to a language. If you are proficient in the underlying programming concepts, the language simply does not matter with the right amount of motivation.

So someone with a strong competency in C#, PHP, or JavaScript should be able to write Assembly? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I feel like there's a piece there that's missing.

The biggest problem going from PHP to Assembly is going to be the jump from presumably-web-pages to presumably-hardware programming.

The mechanics of the language will be a very minor speed hump compared to changing problem domains. You can signal for that with specific programming languages, but realistically a hiring manager should be most interested in finding someone who understands the core concepts of the problems at hand rather than any specific language.

If solving a problem implies directly accessing a CPU register then realistically that part of the problem is going to get solved using Assembly. If twiddling bits on the CPU isn't needed then other languages will just be faster to move from nothing -> problem solved -> solution in maintenance mode so Assembly should be avoided. This decision doesn't really hinge on the programmers preferences.

Re: Do You Know Cobol? If So, There Might Be a Job for You

#20

Post by tclancy »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #15
bovermyer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So someone with a strong competency in C#, PHP, or JavaScript should be able to write Assembly? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I feel like there's a piece there that's missing.

Why not? With training, of course, and time to ramp up. Assembly isn't Linear A.

How can you be sure?
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