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Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

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Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#181

Post by trobertson »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #172
curtis wrote: post #143

We're thinking about the problem all wrong. Clearly the way to close the wage gap is to get women to stop having kids. Of course I'm not serious, but then I personally don't care if there is a wage gap as long as it is not being caused by workplace discrimination against women. If instead it's the case that the wage gap is caused by women (disproportionately to men) making an informed choice to de-prioritize work in…

I don’t like how this argument is presented, I can’t remember the correct name for an argument articulated like this but I’ll try to explain why it’s misleading as I keep seeing it lately: > Clearly the way to close the wage gap is to get women to stop having kids. That’s one way, the basis of the rest of this comment is then predicated on this being the only way, and as such only has to deal with this. > I personall…

OP did not assert that “the wage gap is caused by women”. OP said that _IF_ the wage gap was caused by the informed decisions of women, then OP is fine with it. And that is a reasonable view.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#182

Post by gedy »

amb23 wrote: post #167
curtis wrote: post #143

We're thinking about the problem all wrong. Clearly the way to close the wage gap is to get women to stop having kids. Of course I'm not serious, but then I personally don't care if there is a wage gap as long as it is not being caused by workplace discrimination against women. If instead it's the case that the wage gap is caused by women (disproportionately to men) making an informed choice to de-prioritize work in…

In a perfectly rational market, neither mother or father would disproportionately decide to make one choice or another to prioritize or de-prioritize work at the expense or benefit of raising children. Equal numbers of men would be making that same choice as women do. But that's not the case today. Despite all the hemming and hawing over the wage gap issue, it's clear where the wage gap comes from: childcare, childca…

> if they're forced to leave the workforce to care for a newborn.

Most professional people I know have quit working because they want to take care of their children. Most only work or return to work because they have to.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#183

Post by adimitrov »

zimablue wrote: post #80
adimitrov wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very short sighted. Population doesn't permeate the ether like a perfect gas, and we're not all indistinct like the molecules of such a gas. Whether the current global population levels are unsustainable is up for debate. What is not up for debate, and is already apparent in Western nations as well as other booming economies such as China and Japan are the severe implications of demographic change and the disr…

It's only "economic sense" in a VERY narrow viewpoint where you assume that you're going to disallow immigration AND assume that your social security system is offset by a generation AND assume that economic measures like GDP/etc are important. I'd change those three before pushing the "increase population" button. Japan had low growth and higher happiness for a couple of decades now. Even taking all that, economical…

Immigration is not disallowed. In many European economies, birth rates have been below replacement for decades, and immigration has been the only thing propping up populations. Recent events notwithstanding.

Japan is facing a demographic crisis[1]. Among developed nations, their problem is the most extreme because of very low rates of immigration, and a continuously dwindling replacement rate.

Nobody's talking about increasing population. We're well below replacement rate, and that's terrifying. The environment is not going to be helped by developed nations collapsing under their own demographic weight.

To reiterate my point: abstaining from having children in the West does a) nothing to reduce overpopulation b) severely impacts local economic capacity without benefit to the environment. Said economic capacity is currently at the forefront of developing sustainable energy models.

In order to reduce overpopulation, fighting for women's education and women's rights has proven far more valuable.

[1] https://www.businessinsider.de/japan-fertility-crisis-2017-4...

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#184

Post by dgudkov »

swebs wrote: post #173
dgudkov wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We could choose to offset it directly, for example by subsidizing children -- kind of like a basic income just for kids. Unfortunately, too many people thinking "why should I pay for raising someone else's kids?".

>"why should I pay for raising someone else's kids?" Well why should I?

Why should you pay for maintaining roads you never use? Or social aid you never receive? It's the common good.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#186

Post by justtopost »

rimliu wrote: post #109
Kiro wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowering the birth rates is the number one thing we can do to save the planet so I see that as a positive thing.

Misanthropy should be looked down even more than misogyny because it’s hating twice as many people.

Fear of overpopulation is not misanthropy. Personal attacks are veboten here. Please stop.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#187

Post by jonathankoren »

chongli wrote: post #160
jonathankoren wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think that new fathers aren't going to enroll their child in health insurance, and take advantage of tax deductions?

That doesn't apply here in Canada. If I were a new father in the US, faced with taking a massive pay cut for forced paternity leave, I'd pick up the insurance for my child at retail. Heck, in high pressure firms where anyone taking parental leave is inviting career stagnation or termination (fully justified by having HR set up a paper trail of unsatisfactory performance evaluations), you'd be downright crazy to discl…

1) We're talking about paid leave.

2) Historically, no one bought insurance on the individual market. It's been absurdly expensive. That was why the individual mandate under Obamacare is/was important. It forced healthy people to buy insurance, and thus drive down the price.

3) It's illegal discriminate based on parental status.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#188

Post by nickwalton00 »

swebs wrote: post #173
dgudkov wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We could choose to offset it directly, for example by subsidizing children -- kind of like a basic income just for kids. Unfortunately, too many people thinking "why should I pay for raising someone else's kids?".

>"why should I pay for raising someone else's kids?" Well why should I?

Because other people paid when you were young to raise you.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#189

Post by curtis »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #172
curtis wrote: post #143

We're thinking about the problem all wrong. Clearly the way to close the wage gap is to get women to stop having kids. Of course I'm not serious, but then I personally don't care if there is a wage gap as long as it is not being caused by workplace discrimination against women. If instead it's the case that the wage gap is caused by women (disproportionately to men) making an informed choice to de-prioritize work in…

I don’t like how this argument is presented, I can’t remember the correct name for an argument articulated like this but I’ll try to explain why it’s misleading as I keep seeing it lately: > Clearly the way to close the wage gap is to get women to stop having kids. That’s one way, the basis of the rest of this comment is then predicated on this being the only way, and as such only has to deal with this. > I personall…

> > Clearly the way to close the wage gap is to get women to stop having kids.

> That’s one way, the basis of the rest of this comment is then predicated on this being the only way, and as such only has to deal with this.

Did you completely skip over my very next sentence? The one that starts with Of course I'm not serious, ...?

> There is the massive assumption here, “the wage gap is caused by women” without any evidence to back it up.

This on the other hand is a completely fair thing to note. I'd suggest splitting that out into a separate comment, because a discussion of the available evidence is a good thing to have independent of how you may feel about my rhetorical approach in my original comment.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#190

Post by [deleted] »

curtis wrote: post #143

We're thinking about the problem all wrong. Clearly the way to close the wage gap is to get women to stop having kids. Of course I'm not serious, but then I personally don't care if there is a wage gap as long as it is not being caused by workplace discrimination against women. If instead it's the case that the wage gap is caused by women (disproportionately to men) making an informed choice to de-prioritize work in…

[deleted]
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