Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap • Hacker News Board

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#31

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Sep 30, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

Smushman wrote: post #22

oconnore wrote: post #7

This seems really heavy handed. In my experience what’s valuable for men is flexibility, not some set number of weeks you have 100% off. I (as a father) went back to work at Fivetran 4 weeks after my son was born, but at 20 hours a week. That allowed me to help my partner during the initial recovery, but also be the primary parent (with daycare) from ~4-9 months when she returned to traveling for work in consulting.…

I think the primary point of the article is that this flexible planning is not functioning as an equalizer in the workplace (Title: Want Equality? Make New Dads Stay Home...) and that it could, and should. To turn it into more direct phrasing; a woman has to take a significant chunk of time off during a pregnancy by virtue of the condition, and this has a net effect on her career. When a woman takes off for pregnancy…

[deleted]

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#32

Post by SrslyJosh » Sun, Sep 30, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

brighteyes wrote: post #17

It would have been a more interesting article had it also went into the downsides of this approach. One specific concern is that mandatory paternity leave may discourage men from becoming fathers, further decreasing the birth rate which is already quite low in many advanced economies. Another is that if taking paternity leave impacts men's careers, then in many cases both parents will suffer such an impact, further d…

> It would have been a more interesting article had it also went into the downsides of this approach _for men_.

Fixed it for you.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#33

Post by damagednoob » Sun, Sep 30, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

I'm in favour of a set amount of parental leave that can be shared between spouses in whatever ratio they choose. I don't understand how depriving families of choices is going to be a good thing.

Example: You and your husband would like to breastfeed your baby for the first 6 months but you are unable to express? Too bad, your husband has to take paternity leave and you will have to go back to work.

From my experience, there is a connection between mother and child from birth that is nurtured and strengthened through breastfeeding. I would vehemently oppose the state enforcing any interruption in my child's wellbeing as we see fit as parents.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#34

Post by Broken_Hippo » Sun, Sep 30, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

cimmanom wrote: post #10

fjsolwmv wrote: post #6

Why do we want equality if it means pushing women away from the motherhood they choose?

How would this push any woman away from the choice to be a mother? And why should someone who wants to be a mother and a careerist have to accept more career penalties than someone who wants to be a father and careerist? And why should a woman who doesn't want children have to pay a penalty for the choices of those who do?

I'm a childless woman. This is by choice. I might consider adoption, but I have absolutely no desire to be pregnant nor give birth. I'm 40, by the way, and have known I didn't want children for at least 25 years.

I'm happy to give parents time off. I'm happy parents get more sick days where I'm at to take care of their young children. I'm happy my taxes, in part, go to this.

We actually need children. And parents have more responsibilities than I do. I want children to be educated and well cared for. The most selfish reason is that I want competent folks to take care of me when I'm old: The other is that I want humanity to be better when I leave the earth.

There are costs and benefits to everything. Besides, I had/have the choice of becoming a mother and getting those benefits - though there is a lot to lose as well. And it isn't me.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#35

Post by contravariant » Sun, Sep 30, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

vsviridov wrote: post #4

Nothing like a little enforcement for the public good /s

Eh, sometimes you need a little enforcement to escape the Nash equilibrium. Not sure this is the best example though.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#36

Post by zimablue » Sun, Sep 30, 2018, 5:16 PM UTC

john_moscow wrote: post #30

barrkel wrote: post #14

We western economies have to figure this out or we'll gradually depopulate, or live under fascist governments, or worse. Much of the gains of two-income parents goes into house prices to be closer to good schools - i.e. zero sum competition, while company incentives are to encourage people not to have children, or defer children until too late to maintain population, and essentially stopping the next generation of em…

>And then you mix migration driven by climate change Do you seriously believe the migration is driven by climate change, not by the difference in life quality driven by political/cultural differences?

Water crisis contributes to Syria/ISIS contributes to migration is one where I think the cause-effect is quite clear, I could be wrong.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#37

Post by aghaghagh » Sun, Sep 30, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

“And the trees were all kept equal.. by hatchet, axe, and saw.”

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#38

Post by matt4077 » Sun, Sep 30, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

damagednoob wrote: post #33

I'm in favour of a set amount of parental leave that can be shared between spouses in whatever ratio they choose. I don't understand how depriving families of choices is going to be a good thing. Example: You and your husband would like to breastfeed your baby for the first 6 months but you are unable to express? Too bad, your husband has to take paternity leave and you will have to go back to work. From my experienc…

> From my experience, there is a connection between mother and child from birth

That's not "experience", it's just the 1950's dogma on the role of men and women dressed up in think-of-the-children.

And even then: nutritional benefits of breastfeeding don't require the mother's presence, or men could choose a period after weaning for their leave.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#39

Post by stcredzero » Sun, Sep 30, 2018, 5:21 PM UTC

Make men stay at home for paternity leave? I have a coworker fighting for the ability to stay at home for parental leave.

Re: Mandatory paternity leave would help close the wage gap

#40

Post by zimablue » Sun, Sep 30, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #29

kgwgk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, society as a whole has decided [...] that the cost of having [children] should be born by all, even those without. Is this not a thread about how society has NOT yet decided such a thing?

In theory, yes, but in practice taxes tend to favor married couples and people with children. So even if in the theoretical case you are right practically speaking we all share the cost of having children.

Sorry to be that guy but you're making a clear logical fallacy.

The argument is "should we subsidize children" and you're substituting "does society want to subsidize children" and then for THAT you're substituting "do we currently subsidize children".

You can only go from 1 to 2 by assuming something like tyranny of the majority.

You can only go from 2 to 3 by assuming that the current system is exactly what society would choose if they decided now. Which is obviously silly, given a blank slate drug laws, marriage laws and tax breaks would all be different for a few examples.