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Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

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Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#141

Post by pzone »

WalterBright wrote: post #128
culot wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If heroin and morphine were legalized Addiction and abuse rates would skyrocket, though. With an availability similar to alcohol, that would begin a plague that would envelop the country with astonishing speed. The problem with those drugs now is already a big problem, but if you put them within reach of every single adult you could bring a country to its knees. Yes, legalizing them would be a boon for commercial i…

> Addiction and abuse rates would skyrocket, though. That's quite an assumption. For example, I don't have thoughts like "I wish heroin was legal, because I want to be a junkie!" Somehow, I'm not an alcoholic nor a smoker, despite them being readily available. I do love my coffee, however :-)

Well you're damn lucky then. This is a case of public policy where the typical upper middle class guy who drinks a glass of red wine every night with dinner is not helpful in understanding the problem. I've seen people's lives ruined by alcohol. It's a damn serious drug and we hardly have any discussion about how dangerous it is to a small but significant minority of people. Opiates are FAR more addictive than alcohol.

Legalize weed? Perfect. Cocaine? Probably no worse than alcohol. Opiates? Absolutely not.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#142

Post by mersenne »

someguydave wrote: post #121
21 wrote: post #25

This story collapses a lot of popular narratives. That peoples in USA buying drugs are the drivers of violence in Mexico. That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

agreed. Mexico has demonstrated that it cannot run itself, some other country must step in and provide governance.

What an ignorant comment.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#143

Post by turtlecloud »

poisonarena wrote: post #119
crb002 wrote: post #15

Construction is still king for money laundering. $1 bulldozer rental here, $500 toilet seat there, just like a bank for deposits and withdrawals.

hey so I noticed you were getting downvoted, but in a way you are right.. I worked at a large bank in mexico and construction business is divided by different firms, some more corrupt than others, the construction isn't really controlled by cartels or mafias, but their own construction corrupt syndicates, kinda.. but definitely it is a pain to deal with them when they decide certain bribes are not enough, they often…

Ya. In the US a lot of the cement companies are owned by Italians. Former mafia members I presume.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#144

Post by xrd »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #8

Recommended movie: Elite Squad and especially the sequel Elite Squad: Enemy Within . It's about BOPE, the special operations unit of Rio de Janeiro police. The first is about the military anti-gang exploits, the second is a good hard look at what corruption looks like. The drugs aren't going away if you break up a cartel, neither is the money.

Underscoring their veracity: most of my Brazilian friends won't watch them because they are too realistic. They are incredible films, and tough to watch.

I wrote a little extra about the amazing story behind the film here:

http://webiphany.com/2010/12/14/is-brazil-finally-ready-to-f...

tl;dr: the movie was leaked to the internet before widespread theatrical release to prevent police censorship and still became a financial success. It's a moment in Brazilian internet history that is important to know about.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#145

Post by jimnotgym »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #36
jimnotgym wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear. I wonder, however, if drugs had never become illegal would a major crime organization managed to form in the first place?

We know the answer already. The Sicilian Mafia was a landowners' association and traded in citrus fruit. Vito Corleone was a literary figure, but it's understandable why he was averse to moving into the drug trade.

I get that other countries had their time when a valuable product was around and the government was not in control of it. But I was asking about Mexico.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#146

Post by GordonS »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #116
pier25 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For illegal gasoline? Yeah totally. Buying illegal gasoline only makes sense for some individuals in transportation because in Mexico there is no fiscalization on a large portion of the economy (street vendors for example). Big transportation companies couldn't do it. They need to justify expenses, get invoices, etc. A couple of years back it was easy to get fake invoices since everything was on paper, but there was…

Many US truck drivers are owner-operators. They pay their own taxes and only have to keep driver logs. They are audited as often as the average American. Buying stolen gasoline is a no brainer.

If gasoline theft was to become prevelant in the US, surely the authorities and regulators would be in a much better position to take action than those in Mexico? (Mexico less so, largely because the cartels were borne into existence because of the prohibition of drugs)

Also, isn't being an owner-operator a good reason to play by the rules? By using stolen fuel you'd be risking a very expensive asset, and indeed your livelihood.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#147

Post by GordonS »

turtlecloud wrote: post #143
poisonarena wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hey so I noticed you were getting downvoted, but in a way you are right.. I worked at a large bank in mexico and construction business is divided by different firms, some more corrupt than others, the construction isn't really controlled by cartels or mafias, but their own construction corrupt syndicates, kinda.. but definitely it is a pain to deal with them when they decide certain bribes are not enough, they often…

Ya. In the US a lot of the cement companies are owned by Italians. Former mafia members I presume.

Stereotype much?

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#148

Post by dariusm5 »

beenBoutIT wrote: post #69

"The armed conflict between the cartels and Mexico’s military, which has dragged on for 12 years, now ranks as the deadliest war in the world apart from Syria." Do people still voluntarily go on holiday in Mexico?

I lived in Mexico City for a couple of years and visited around 20 cities. Not only did I never feel uncomfortable or scared, I discovered many beautiful places I could see myself retiring in. When your expectations are very low about a place, you are swept off your feet when you see the amazing reality.

After my travels in Mexico and Latin America, I feel like statistics without proper context and sensationalist news do a big disservice to people. It's a lot more exciting and interesting to focus on pockets of areas where gang-on-gang violence is occurring. People would rather click on article to read about drug related news rather than a piece discussing the many great festivals coming up in Mexico City and around the country.

However, the reality is that life in the majority of the country is just like anywhere you'd imagine, sometimes fun, sometimes normal, and sometimes boring. The only danger being from purposefully looking for trouble or being very unlucky by being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

To put it in another way, someone can also ask why would anyone want to visit the US after all the news about gun violence? Why would anyone want to visit the US after reading about the crime in Detroit, Memphis, South Chicago, Baltimore, etc.

I've been to the US (including Detroit and Chicago) enough to know what it's really like and now understand the context better when reading news articles about crime and violence there.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#149

Post by paulie_a »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #64
paulie_a wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russian government is a mafia, we just call them oligarchs. If one gets a little uppity he gets whacked. The leader is worth 50 billion dollars. It's the sopranos on steroids and has nuclear weapons.

Yeah but my point was that Mexican cartels are so openly brutal and that effects everything. Yeah, Russian government and mafia are one, but it's done differently.

I don't see the difference, openly poisoning people is pretty brutal too. Or shooting journalists in the street seems fairly brutal.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#150

Post by nyolfen »

nyolfen wrote: post #126
pier25 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but do you think the number of taxi and truck drivers is larger than the number of drug users? Also, do you think the profits are so big that gangs would fight for territory to be able to sell illegal gasoline? I seriously doubt it.

>They found it extremely profitable, with no need to smuggle the product across the increasingly militarized U.S. border, and with a much broader market than illegal drugs. “Everybody needs gasoline,” El Polkas says. “You’re always going to have customers. Especially when it’s cheap.”

i guess my eyes skipped over this the first time, but:

>Also, do you think the profits are so big that gangs would fight for territory to be able to sell illegal gasoline?

the article says this very thing in fact occurs!

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