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Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

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Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#121

Post by s3nnyy »

baxtr wrote: post #120
s3nnyy wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't get why Germany is underpaying engineers. After taxes, a cleaning lady in Switzerland can earn more than an engineer in Germany. Net salaries in Zürich are the only ones in Europe that match Bay Area level. (Living costs are lower than you think, see my blogpost titled "Nine reasons why I moved to Switzerland to work in tech", which I wrote after I emigrated from Germany: https://bit.ly/2GNlJcA ) So why…

I’m not sure your comment adds any value to the discussion. It seems to be intended purely as advertisement EDIT: it seems as if you edited your post heavily to add the notion of “content”

I am sorry that you see it in this way. I am just trying to be helpful by explaining what I experience here and also pointing to my small business, which is tech recruitment related. I added a few points and marked the end as "content marketing" to make things more clear.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#122

Post by Nimitz14 »

destartupop wrote: post #57
hef19898 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and than you have to pass a panel deciding whether your "idea" is innovative enough. It reminded me more of a game of buzzword bingo than a viable investment procedure. As your not allowed to incorporate before enter EXIST it is just a waste of time. Not to mention that it all depends on how well you are connected at your university, and if government funds are available.

I'd say the chances of getting a grant are very good, back in the day the success rate was around 50 % and you could apply up to three times (to my knowledge), which made it highly likely that you'd get the money if you were persevering. It's true that you have to choose a good university as the quality of the provided coaching and mentorship varies wildly. I can recommend LMU & TU Munich as well as TU Berlin or one…

Thank you for taking the time to write this out, this could really help me!

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#123

Post by sgift »

mk89 wrote: post #112
hnkf wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely why I despise startup culture. What about the risk for the workers and your customers? What are the grand innovations you think Europe couldn’t produce because we’re more careful?

Workers know what they are getting into. Customers know what they are buying. It's an ecosystem that lives on its own. Could you think of Google made in Europe? In Germany, in France, or in Italy? It's no wonder that many Europeans tend to go and live in the USA for that reason.

> Could you think of Google made in Europe? In Germany, in France, or in Italy?

Some of the biggest companies in the world are from Europe. All of them started as small companies. So, yeah, Google made in Europe is possible. Tech is not a special snowflake industry with other rules than everyone else.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#124

Post by hef19898 »

jayalpha wrote: post #8
destartupop wrote: post #2

I've been trying to build deep tech startups in Germany for 6 years. I managed to sell the first one I built to a US company (for a very small amount of money) and started afresh after taking a break as an employee. Right now I'm at the point of giving up again because it's so damn hard to find customers here. In my opinion, for deep tech startups the problem is not primarily access to capital but access to customers…

Agreed. * Lack of capital There is just much less VC available, even if normalized for the difference in size. I know the VC scene a little bit in Germany. Total monkeys. * Lack of attitude Germans are much more hierarchical. Both in science and entrepreneurship I found the American personality much more suited. * Lack of vision You will find money in Germany for a personalized cereal/granola mix shipment service (wa…

Your cereal mix service is called Mymüsli. During the time I investigated funding options I was considering to enter a business plan contest. The information given by everyone was that only inovative tech start-ups would be considered. One of the runner ups in the end was a service that allowed you to by food from local farmers, limited to one metropolitan area.

I have my doubts that the general start-up ecosystemin germany knows what they are doing.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#125

Post by konschubert »

_petronius wrote: post #31
Jdam wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve lived in Berlin for some years. What I‘ve seen from most of the startup scene there was that people are more collecting memories than building businesses. The predominant mindset was like „we don’t want to take over the world and we will most likely fail anyway“. The successful ones, like Dubsmash, leave for the US after a while. If I, as a German, was to create a startup in Europe today, I’d do so in London.

I would humbly submit that your sample size is too small. Even just the Rocket Internet output is a pretty good indicator of the size and diversity of successful startups tsrgetting the German market specifically (and thus with no incentive to move out to the US).

Rocket Internet is the opposite of innovation.

If anything, the success of Rocket Internet proves the point that Germany is not good at startups.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#126

Post by merb »

prablenha wrote: post #69
merb wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you never heard of zalando?!

I haven't. Where are you from? I live in Southern Europe and I have never heard of them. I looked at their website and everything is stupidly expensive.

well I'm from germany but zalando grew so big in europe (too big I think actually). I mean they have such an aggressive marketing, even in southern regions from europe, I've seen some zalando stuff even in spain (Costa Brava, maybe because some parts there are "germanized").

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#127

Post by Nimitz14 »

prablenha wrote: post #22
mprev wrote: post #9

Has the author not heard of Rocket Internet? Hello Fresh? Zalando? Contentful? SumUp? Wooga? Deepstreamhub? Delivery Hero? N26?

I'm European and I have never heard of any of those.

You're an outlier.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#128

Post by NotCamelCase »

stesch wrote: post #75

The difference is: We have labor laws.

Why is not there a middle ground between hire-and-fire-quick vs very strong/rigid labor laws that would give more optimized/successful end results for most involved than either of the two extreme points would generate? On one hand, I certainly would not want what's happened to e.g. Telltale employees who recently got laid off abruptly with no severance packages to happen to any of my friends/family. On the other hand, if you want a pool of opportunities of strong growth to co-exist within your economy, you gotta relax and give some room for those of us who are or want to be innovative.

Come to think of it, with the safety net that is provided in most developed European countries (e.g. Sweden, Norway) one would think that there'd be more innovations (normalized by metrics like population, etc.) generated there than say, the USA but I doubt that is the case here without having any numbers or proof. Is it the scale that matters most or what am I missing?

Overall, I for one wouldn't still trade strong labor laws with being the most innovative place but I do still hope for a better middle ground for everyone.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#129

Post by kvz »

southerndrift wrote: post #86
zenovision wrote: post #81

Germany has a lot of drawbacks to be the next silicon valley: * the most difficult tax system in the world. even freelancers have to use accountant services, because most people will not be able to pay taxes properly without it. * high taxes - 42% income tax + Solidaritätszuschlag 5.5% = 47.5%; for corporations it's ~30%. * A LOT of buerocracy. I can't even send an email to tax authorities in my area, because they on…

For startups, taxes for corporations don't matter. You only pay taxes on profits. If you are living off venture capital, then you have none. If you are self-funding with organic growth then you have to make sure that you spend all your profits on growth which you should do anyway. Once you have matured, you can still restructure the company like Apple or Google and turn into an Irish or Estonian company. That's the a…

> If you are self-funding with organic growth then you have to make sure that you spend all your profits on growth which you should do anyway

In my case I have a mortgage and kids. To make sure we get by, with the high profit tax, there needs to be enough profit left, ergo, I’m not investing as much in the company to leave enough for the government and my family to consume.

I’m sure there are enough people who can get by with very little, and what you say makes sense. Just doesn’t apply to all, and that means on the country scale: smaller pool of people that are willing, and less money going back into growing companies.

Re: Germans don’t do tech startups – more access to capital might change that

#130

Post by [deleted] »

raverbashing wrote: post #93
zenovision wrote: post #81

Germany has a lot of drawbacks to be the next silicon valley: * the most difficult tax system in the world. even freelancers have to use accountant services, because most people will not be able to pay taxes properly without it. * high taxes - 42% income tax + Solidaritätszuschlag 5.5% = 47.5%; for corporations it's ~30%. * A LOT of buerocracy. I can't even send an email to tax authorities in my area, because they on…

> the most difficult tax system in the world. I love how hyperbolic statements like this get bought and sold like truth. It's not even close to being the most difficult tax system in the world. Source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IC.TAX.DURS?year_high_d... > highly qualified foreigners have to learn German For startups or tech positions? No, they don't. Also, learning German at a conversational level is not…

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