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Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

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Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#91

Post by gleenn »

marcosdumay wrote: post #75
21 wrote: post #25

This story collapses a lot of popular narratives. That peoples in USA buying drugs are the drivers of violence in Mexico. That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

There is no doubt that a fully formed criminal organization would diversify its income if the drug money suddenly vanished. The question is how lucrative its their new initiatives, how much of structure they are able to upkeep and how much crime there consist of "inherited" structure that is not viable with their new margins. No organizational collapse looks good, and this is one that didn't look any good even on its…

FTA, the stolen gas money already is as good or a bigger source of money than the drugs

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#92

Post by vermontdevil »

passn wrote: post #76
mattmanser wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a thread about Uber drivers in Brazil scamming, there are people talking about how it's a death sentence to walk into the wrong favela. Are they wrong? That's not a normal, functioning, society, regardless of GDP.

"A death sentence" is exaggerating but just as in any city of 20m people in the developing world there will be some very dangerous areas. Just because an enormous city has some dangerous areas does not mean it is not a "normal, functioning, society". It also doesn't mean it should be equated to the middle east, assumed to be the same as the other 32 countries on the continent.

And Rio just had the Summer Olympics.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#93

Post by vermontdevil »

remarkEon wrote: post #90
21 wrote: post #25

This story collapses a lot of popular narratives. That peoples in USA buying drugs are the drivers of violence in Mexico. That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

>That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear. I'm super skeptical of this argument. My sense is that they'd just diversify into other industries and create their own black markets - and it seems they're already doing this.

Like the American mafia after alcohol prohibition ended.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#94

Post by [deleted] »

remarkEon wrote: post #90
21 wrote: post #25

This story collapses a lot of popular narratives. That peoples in USA buying drugs are the drivers of violence in Mexico. That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

>That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear. I'm super skeptical of this argument. My sense is that they'd just diversify into other industries and create their own black markets - and it seems they're already doing this.

[deleted]

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#95

Post by remarkEon »

vermontdevil wrote: post #93
remarkEon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear. I'm super skeptical of this argument. My sense is that they'd just diversify into other industries and create their own black markets - and it seems they're already doing this.

Like the American mafia after alcohol prohibition ended.

The institutions of Civil Society in Mexico and the United States are extremely different, both in terms of their scope and adherence to rule of law. Mexican Cartel activity today and organized crime of the post-prohibition era in the United States are not exactly apples to apples.

Edit: I'm probably not being clear ... I don't disagree with your point. You're correct that they diversified. I just don't think it's wise to use that as a good proxy.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#96

Post by agumonkey »

gfarah wrote: post #66
Bucephalus355 wrote: post #52

Basically Latin America has been like the entire Middle East for the last 10 years. For all Steven Pinker writes about the decline of violence, this cannot be in anyway true about Latin America. The crime rate is up 10% since the early 2000’s, even after aggressive “statistical management” by the governments. After including what crimes aren’t reported, it’s probably closer to 30% or 40%. The Navy Seals have done tra…

It has increased in some unfortunately (Mexico, Venezuela, El Salvador) it has however decreased in others. Colombia, a country you name in your example has had a 92% decline in crime since the year 2000[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Colombia#cite_note-au...

Once I spoke to a colombian on Omegle, he suddenly left say 'WTH' and came back saying someone stabbed his car tires. No apparent reason. He said it wasn't uncommon there.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#97

Post by agumonkey »

pier25 wrote: post #46
21 wrote: post #25

This story collapses a lot of popular narratives. That peoples in USA buying drugs are the drivers of violence in Mexico. That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear.

> That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear Nothing will make violence disappear completely. That said, legalizing drugs will most certainly reduce cartel activity. Cartels exist because they sell a product with a huge margin that people can't really buy from anywhere else. Even when selling stolen products such as gasoline their market and margin is much smaller.

offshore prohibition, interesting. Or reverse opium war, also interesting.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#98

Post by dang »

CPLX wrote: post #84
Bucephalus355 wrote: post #52

Basically Latin America has been like the entire Middle East for the last 10 years. For all Steven Pinker writes about the decline of violence, this cannot be in anyway true about Latin America. The crime rate is up 10% since the early 2000’s, even after aggressive “statistical management” by the governments. After including what crimes aren’t reported, it’s probably closer to 30% or 40%. The Navy Seals have done tra…

This is xenophobic nonsense. I have travelled extensively all over Latin America (a massive and heterogeneous place by the way) for the last 20+ years and literally none of this rings true at all. I mean are you extending this “age of violence” theory to Chicago, or Orlando nightclubs, the Las Vegas strip, or a typical American public school? Or do you confine your contempt to brown people who speak a different langu…

Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. It's possible, and much better, to correct misinformation without attacking someone for being wrong. Even if you don't owe that person better, you owe it to the community you're participating in.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#99

Post by pier25 »

nyolfen wrote: post #49
pier25 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That legalizing drugs would make the cartels and the violence disappear Nothing will make violence disappear completely. That said, legalizing drugs will most certainly reduce cartel activity. Cartels exist because they sell a product with a huge margin that people can't really buy from anywhere else. Even when selling stolen products such as gasoline their market and margin is much smaller.

it says in this article that the fuel theft is cheaper and easier, and one former cartel member says it makes as much money as drugs >their market and margin is much smaller you think there's a smaller market for gasoline than drugs?

For illegal gasoline? Yeah totally.

Buying illegal gasoline only makes sense for some individuals in transportation because in Mexico there is no fiscalization on a large portion of the economy (street vendors for example).

Big transportation companies couldn't do it. They need to justify expenses, get invoices, etc. A couple of years back it was easy to get fake invoices since everything was on paper, but there was a reform in 2016 and now all invoices are electronically signed by the Mexican IRS.

Re: Mexico’s drug cartels are moving into the gasoline industry

#100

Post by cpncrunch »

allannienhuis wrote: post #74
beenBoutIT wrote: post #69

"The armed conflict between the cartels and Mexico’s military, which has dragged on for 12 years, now ranks as the deadliest war in the world apart from Syria." Do people still voluntarily go on holiday in Mexico?

Pretty sure the vast majority of the gang/cartel related violence doesn't take place in the tourist areas, and that the few reports we hear about where a tourist has been involved in some violence are a tiny percentage of the overall problem. I've never had the feeling that tourists in the main tourist areas in Mexico were any less safe than at home. Certainly I'd be more afraid of my safety in many parts of most maj…

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/mexico/safety-and-s...

"Crime and violence are serious problems in Mexico and the security situation can pose a risk for foreigners"

"There have been a number of violent car-jackings and robberies along the Pacific Highway and you should be careful when travelling on this route. "

https://globalnews.ca/news/4171527/cancun-mexico-violence-tr...

"Canadians travel to Mexico more than any other country except the United States. But many visitors may be unaware of the growing violence in a main city that was once hailed as one of the country’s safest: Cancun. This week, five people were found dead near the public prosecutor’s office in the city on the Yucatán Peninsula, bringing the death toll by violence in the beach city to more than 100 since the beginning of the year."

Doesn't really sound like the kind of place I'll consider visiting any time soon. I like living in one of the safest places in the world, and I have no interest in going somewhere like this.

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