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Solid – Reshape the web as we know it

solid.inrupt.com

141–150 of 263 posts

Re: Solid – Reshape the web as we know it

#141

The goals are laudable, and sometimes a backwards-looking implementation can get traction faster than a forward-looking one. But the reliance on Pods and URL location-based identifiers roots it firmly in the past. I think the future is the robust content addressable distributed web. Which could give developers the same flexibility, and users the same friendly experience, but with everything virtualized in a peer to p…

I agree with this, at least in general. Linking content location to content ID is a serious mistake.

I'm not convinced it's worth investing time or effort into something that might make it harder to address the problem of URLs in the future. I get "solve one problem at a time", but I feel like URLs are so fundamental of a problem, you have to get them right first before you move on to other problems. And for the most part, we have gotten them right -- build whatever web replacement you're working on on top of DAT/IPFS, unless you have a really good reason not to :)

A decentralized web is a web where content can be re-hosted and verified by anyone.

Re: Solid – Reshape the web as we know it

#142

Maybe I've been programming too long, and I saw Solid POD and I read "a solid pile of data." Perhaps that was the intended play on words. I never saw the english word "pod".

It's like two peas in a pod.

Or a pod of whales.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pod

Re: Solid – Reshape the web as we know it

#144
Please correct me if I’m missing something that technically prevents this, but once you grant a 3rd Party access to your data (via a SolidPOD), what’s to stop them scraping it and keeping it for themselves in order to build a profile on you?

Re: Solid – Reshape the web as we know it

#145
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the content-addressable distributed web really "give ... users the same friendly experience"? I'm a bit outside my wheelhouse, and I don't fully understand what Solid means when they say "You own your data", but with content-addressable strategies, often users _don't_ really have ownership once something is published in the sense that you can't delete or change something if anyone else is serving a copy.

Very much depends on the concept of ownership, doesn't it? ;) I mean, you own it, but so does everyone else. I think the traditional(?) concept of ownership you are referring to, that allows people to "delete" information is very unnatural and feels akin to trying to reverse entropy. You can't unring a bell, and you can't delete data from the world.

The human concepts of ownership implies a very important right that people tend to overlook: the right to DESTROY it, to undo it, to "take back what you said".

This is important, because for physical artifacts having the right to destroy/demolish means having the right to create new things in its place (if I inherit a historical monument castle and I can't f demolish it to a pile of sand by my liking, than that's a scam, I don't really own it; also I might want to demolish it for aesthetic/informational reasons too, to "wipe" a part of its history from the human collective knowledge base).

And for informational artifacts, the right to "undo" or "take back" is also important, because the fact that what you say/publish is there to haunt you forever will have a chilling effect... lots of interesting things will go unsaid unwritten.

You have to burn books/libraries/things from time to time, otherwise everyone becomes afraid to write new books or build new things!

And on a physical level death has the same liberating effect. You know you're gonna die sometime anyway, so you can enjoy that cigarette, it increasing your risk of an incurable cancer by 1e-3 percent will not have consequences that will haunt you forever... Death and destruction are necessary for true freedom, at least for the kind of freedom I want to have.

Things like block-chain/graphs combined with content adressability bring significant limitations to FREEDOM. Endless responsibility and accountability for everything you've done and said would make life of all creative and disruptive people a living hell. Heck, if you're not free from at least some of the consequences of your actions, then why do anything at all, why even carry on living.

And on:

> You can't unring a bell, and you can't delete data from the world.

Yes you can, if you kill someone, a part of the information that is in their head and haven't been shared with anyone yet will be lost forever. That's a good thing imo. If everyone who's heard the bell is dead and hasn't told about it to anyone... has the bell truly rung? The information that it has is irrecoverable now. And you can thank your friend entropy for that impossibility to recover this data and for the liberating effect that this can sometimes have ;)

Re: Solid – Reshape the web as we know it

#147
post #11

Seems like a better marketed, but less-technically well thought out version of Sandstorm ( https://sandstorm.io ). Perhaps they should have acquired the IP from Kenton Varda.

I had the same thought. The hard parts really are the containerization of apps, and the auth and permissions model. Sandstorm as far as I know is the best thought out attempt at tackling those problems.

Re: Solid – Reshape the web as we know it

#148
post #8

applications :( Does anyone else feel nostalgia for the pre-"web app" days of the internet? I'm talking about personal sites on Geocities and web rings built on communities of shared interest. The browser was an application for navigating hyperlinked information. Other applications include email clients, news readers, FTP clients, and IRC clients. You never had to download a megabyte of minified JavaScript just to re…

> Does anyone else feel nostalgia for the pre-"web app" days of the internet? I'm talking about personal sites on Geocities and web rings built on communities of shared interest.

Definitely! There's a lot of that sentiment over at Micro.blog [1], which has built a community of writers & indie software developers (especially developers from the RSS era, if you've heard of MarsEdit or NetNewsWire). There's an emphasis on personal blogging, keeping things simple, and using dedicated desktop/mobile apps (usually made by solo/indie developers) for each task, instead of the website. And as part of the IndieWebCamp [2] projects, there's even people making web rings again [3] as well.

There was also a search engine someone showed on HN recently, that didn't have a crawler - the only pages listed were the specific pages (not domains!) that people submitted to the index. That gave the searches some serendipity, you never found what you searched for but stumbled on something that someone else thought was interesting anyway.

[1] https://micro.blog

[2] https://indieweb.org/

[3] http://th3core.com/talk/traffic/i-made-a-web-ring-5-days-ago...

Re: Solid – Reshape the web as we know it

#149
post #118

The goals are laudable, and sometimes a backwards-looking implementation can get traction faster than a forward-looking one. But the reliance on Pods and URL location-based identifiers roots it firmly in the past. I think the future is the robust content addressable distributed web. Which could give developers the same flexibility, and users the same friendly experience, but with everything virtualized in a peer to p…

Would the content-addressable distributed web really "give ... users the same friendly experience"? I'm a bit outside my wheelhouse, and I don't fully understand what Solid means when they say "You own your data", but with content-addressable strategies, often users _don't_ really have ownership once something is published in the sense that you can't delete or change something if anyone else is serving a copy.

Depends on where/how that data is distributed. A big focus with technologies like IPFS is to have data be local and to not upload it anywhere. OR, to encrypt data within a small, private swarm where not everyone can access it.

This is important, because getting rid of a content-addressable strategy doesn't actually protect your data. In practice, running application logic locally and having small private swarms is better for privacy than what we have on the web right now.

So say you're hosting your own data at a traditional URL and on IPFS. Well, if someone wants to save your data, they can do it with the same ease on both. They just download your stuff and save it. If you take your data down from IPFS and from the traditional URL before someone saves it, then your data is safe. So, again, same situation.

What IPFS says is, "if someone re-hosts your data, can we cryptographically prove that it's the same data? And can we refer to the data by that signature rather than whatever the host is this week?" So, if your data goes down but someone else found it and rehosted it, stuff like URLs would still work (although in practice, the URL you'd use would be a pointer to the most recent version of your site, so even that isn't necessarily typical).

This is a minor loss to data ownership because you can't literally invalidate a URL if other people are willing to host it. But that's the only thing you've lost. Under the web as it exists today, someone can still take all of your images and rehost them on Reddit or something. If you think it's easy to prevent that, go let the MPAA know what your strategy is so they can end piracy forever.

So the problem with IPFS/DAT isn't fundamentally any different, it just means that URLs break less often, there are fewer Man-in-the-Middle attacks on your website, and there are fewer download links that lie about their payloads.

Re: Solid – Reshape the web as we know it

#150
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be hint regarding how to authenticate: https://github.com/solid/node-solid-server#testing-solid-loc... > In order to really get a feel for the Solid platform, and to test out solid, you will need the following: > 1. A WebID profile and browser certificate from one of the Solid-compliant identity providers, such as solid.community. EDIT: Seems if you run `solid init` and accept the defaults, it will configure…

I look forward to the day where getting on the internet is like opening a bank account, complete with KYC verification. I will love standing in line at my local DMV and waiting for my WebID profile to be approved.

It'll be nice when browsing without a license is punishable the same way driving without a license is. People will finally be held accountable for the things they say and do online.
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