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Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

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Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#191

Post by wtallis »

avar wrote: post #190
wtallis wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm curious about how this works in practice. If you're a tourist visiting the US during a vote can you just show up to a voting polling station and cast a vote? If you don't have to show your ID what happens from the time you walk up to a polling station until you cast your vote and walk out again? In most states, you must be registered to vote before election day. In those states, non-citizens who attempt to vote…

> In most states, you must be registered to vote before election day. Okey, so there's a list of people eligible to vote at a given polling station, but how do you you get on that list? If there's no mandate to show ID do you just show up for registration and say your name is John Smith living at such-and-such St? The federal census is every 10 years so that claim can't be checked against that. Do local governments m…

In my state, registering to vote requires providing either drivers license number, showing ID, or something like utility bills as proof of address. The form asks if you're a US citizen but does not require you to submit documentation proving citizenship.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#192

Post by avar »

wtallis wrote: post #191
avar wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In most states, you must be registered to vote before election day. Okey, so there's a list of people eligible to vote at a given polling station, but how do you you get on that list? If there's no mandate to show ID do you just show up for registration and say your name is John Smith living at such-and-such St? The federal census is every 10 years so that claim can't be checked against that. Do local governments m…

In my state, registering to vote requires providing either drivers license number, showing ID, or something like utility bills as proof of address. The form asks if you're a US citizen but does not require you to submit documentation proving citizenship.

Upthread there's mention of "homeless living in camps near San Jose". How does someone without a driver's license or home (so no utility bills) register?

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#193

Post by alistairSH »

bluGill wrote: post #44
BatFastard wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elections are held on Tuesday as a way of restricting who can vote PERIOD. Poorer voters have a harder time getting off work, and getting transportation to voting site, which is usually close to their home, but not their work.

The law required you be given enough time off to vote, or you be given advance notice to get an absentee ballot if they won't be close to home.

An hourly worker can vote, the just have to forgo several hours of income to do so. This is particularly true in several Southern states, where polling places are few and far between in poor districts. It also doesn’t help that you have to vote in your home district, when you may work a long commute away, increasing the amount of time away from work even more.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#194

Post by alistairSH »

rsynnott wrote: post #181
seren wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are elections not held on Sundays ? I assume that on average there are less people working that day that Monday - Friday, so less people would have to take time off from their job. Edit: Found this > In 1845, the United States Congress chose a single date for all national elections in all states. The first Tuesday after the first Monday in November was chosen so that there would never be more than 34 days between…

One oddity of the American system I’ve noticed is that most polls seem to close REALLY early. It’s usually 7am-10pm here, so unless you’re working a 15 hour day (which is illegal in most circumstances) you should be able to vote. American polling centres also often seem to have massive queues and long waiting periods to vote, I assume due to understaffing and insufficient numbers of centres.

Yup. And that lack of polling places and understaffing is usually an effort by the party in power to suppress the vote in key (opposing) districts.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#195

Post by robotrout »

wtallis wrote: post #164
robotrout wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. We've been asking for voter id for years and you've been opposing it for years. Why is that? You talk about conspiracy theories. This notion that there is this huge population of legal, eligible voters who are functioning in our society without ID is ludicrous. But if you want to implement paper ballots across the board at the same time, or even 1st, than let's make that happen. As you say, any progress is…

> We've been asking for voter id for years and you've been opposing it for years. Why is that? Ignoring for the moment how improper it is for you to take such a personally accusative tone: The voter ID opposition has been thoroughly justified by the lack of evidence that the problems it solves are real enough to need solving, and by the fact that even the slightest awareness of the context surrounding these voter ID…

> nobody's falling for the lies. They're too transparent.

I would be pleased if you did not personally insult those who you are speaking to.

The lack of evidence is a farce, since any attempts to collect such evidence are met with stonewalling and refusal by democratically controlled local and state government.

In 2014, a study released by a team of professors from Old Dominion University and George Mason University estimated that approximately 6.4 percent of noncitizens voted In the 2008 presidential election. (Versus 56% of legal citizens voting)

As immigration reform becomes more and more of an issue, there is incentive for that 6.4 percent number to further increase, and indeed it may have in 2016, but that data is proving hard to pry loose. Since there are 11 million illegals in the US by the lowest estimate (high estimates are 20 million) this is not a non-problem.

As for the disenfranchisement canard. Even Nate Silver acknowledges it's non-validity. Silver has noted, this argument doesn’t make sense because the vast majority of adults in America hold some form of photo identification and states with voter ID laws offer qualifying documentation at minimal or no cost.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#196

Post by rohit2412 »

mdorazio wrote: post #34
rohit2412 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lot of generalizations and stupid assumptions in that video, like where he argues that of course the ballots will be uploaded over the internet without any authentication/checksum. I don't see why a digital counting machine which is kept completely offline and is transported physically cannot be used, specially if we can verify it's counting functions by randomly verifying a few of those machines (also keep paper bal…

Hang on. You want to use a counting machine, and then physically transport it around to avoid security issues instead of just using proven human counters and physically transported ballots because....???? Why? Just why? What problem is this solving? Does getting your results a few hours sooner make a single bit of difference to merit this madness?

Because paper ballots are easily subverted. In my country (India) it was not uncommon to have goons take up a polling booth and slid hundreds of fake ballots in, or throw in ink in the ballot box. Digital counters stop such attacks.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#197

Post by rohit2412 »

moviuro wrote: post #116
rohit2412 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lot of generalizations and stupid assumptions in that video, like where he argues that of course the ballots will be uploaded over the internet without any authentication/checksum. I don't see why a digital counting machine which is kept completely offline and is transported physically cannot be used, specially if we can verify it's counting functions by randomly verifying a few of those machines (also keep paper bal…

> over the internet without any authentication/checksum As if the totally secure communications over Internet problem had been solved. Why are we seeing SO MANY issues with TLS, VPNs, hardcoded root passwords everywhere, ssh issues even!...

I am advocating a glorified digital calculator with printed out ballot copies. What's called VVPAT. Not online voting.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#198

Post by eftychis »

wizzairflyer wrote: post #166
eftychis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I wonder why? Any ideas?

There's 4 voting sessions per year and, in my own opinion, about half of the topics being voted on are quite silly. This might induce some voting fatigue.

Makes some sense.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#199

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

bluGill wrote: post #54
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems simple enough to just make it a national holiday.

Not really. Do you need to get to the polling place? I guess all gas station workers are exempt. As is everybody working for the various transit systems. Can you ensure nobody has a medical issue on a national holiday? Doctors, nurses, and hospital support staff are all working. This also brings on either the entire power grid, or someone in maintenance to watch the generators. Do you eat? All restaurants are exempt.…

Yes I'm sure I could come up with an unlimited amount of scenarios to make every system imperfect.

There's no reason we can't take the positive step forward of making it a holiday now which would improve it for a huge amount of people and then improve it further.

It seems people want 100% solutions. If it's not perfect we might as well stay stuck where we are. This is essentially what you are saying. This is why no progress is ever made, because improvements are ignored because they are "not perfect." The world isn't perfect, but we can do better and making it a holiday will help significantly.

Keep searching for Utopia, while the pragmatists get things done.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#200

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

Loughla wrote: post #46
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems simple enough to just make it a national holiday.

That doesn't help low income folks who work service jobs that don't get the same holidays. I feel like that would just make the middle-upper income vote that much more loud.

What about the middle class that would benefit from a holiday? Should we just ignore them because we don't have a perfect solution yet?

Making it a holiday is a huge step forward. Taking other steps (like mandated hours off for all jobs) can also be done. Why can't we have a small step forward? Is there a problem with progress if it doesn't fully solve the problem?

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