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Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

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Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#181

Post by rsynnott »

seren wrote: post #20
jniedrauer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a little taxing, but everyone involved enjoy the process This is part of the problem in the United States. Voting is a chore, and you're often going to lose money (unpaid time off) to do it. If elections were national holidays and voting was treated as a privilege instead of a chore, we would be much better off.

Why are elections not held on Sundays ? I assume that on average there are less people working that day that Monday - Friday, so less people would have to take time off from their job. Edit: Found this > In 1845, the United States Congress chose a single date for all national elections in all states. The first Tuesday after the first Monday in November was chosen so that there would never be more than 34 days between…

One oddity of the American system I’ve noticed is that most polls seem to close REALLY early. It’s usually 7am-10pm here, so unless you’re working a 15 hour day (which is illegal in most circumstances) you should be able to vote.

American polling centres also often seem to have massive queues and long waiting periods to vote, I assume due to understaffing and insufficient numbers of centres.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#182

Post by rsynnott »

dev_dull wrote: post #7
return-value wrote: post #6

I work for the municipality of Skanderborg, Denmark. We have what we call digital elections, but what’s digitized is the registration process. Basically every adult gets a voting card with their information + a barcode, we scan those barcodes when they turn up to receive their ballot(is that the right word for voting list?), and then they are registered. The actual voting takes place on paper, and while it takes time…

Believe it or note, requiring ID to vote in the United States is considered controversial.

We require ID to vote in Ireland (theoretically; it’s a spot check thing). The difference is that practically anything is ID for this purpose; a social services card, bank statement, debit card, birth certificate etc etc. So if you either receive any type of social welfare or have a job you almost certainly have ID.

This doesn’t seem to be the case for most of the proposed American requirements, at all.

Most other countries in Europe have mandatory govt id anyway, so it’s not a major burden.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#183

Post by rsynnott »

CocaKoala wrote: post #36
jniedrauer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We desperately need a national ID card. Social security was never designed for this purpose and it's terrible for it. Drivers license requires having access to a car and some way to learn how to use it.

You can get an ID card that works as legal id but isn't a driver's license, but it still requires going to the DMV and burning at LEAST several hours, which isn't an option available to everybody.

Why does it take that long? I had to get a PSC, Ireland’s not-a-national-id-we-promise, to apply for a driving theory test a while back (days afterwards, the requirement to have one for a driving theory test was dropped after public backlash). It took about 20 minutes, and that was only because the civil servant’s computer was being uncooperative.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#184

Post by TomMckenny »

Voting machine manufacturers have vast funds and lobbyists.

Even when congress did manage to in a act bipartisan manner, lobbyists persuaded the white house to kill it.[0]

You'll find plenty of incredibly destructive practices (nearing national suicide actually) caused by money in politics and worsened catastrophically by Citizens United.

[0]Secure Elections Act.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/the-cyb...

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#185

Post by rmetzler »

return-value wrote: post #6

I work for the municipality of Skanderborg, Denmark. We have what we call digital elections, but what’s digitized is the registration process. Basically every adult gets a voting card with their information + a barcode, we scan those barcodes when they turn up to receive their ballot(is that the right word for voting list?), and then they are registered. The actual voting takes place on paper, and while it takes time…

As a fellow European my view changed a little bit, when I understood how US votes differ. I'm used to vote one or two items, sometimes three on one election day. US votes often have dozens of different items. They vote on proprositions for laws, we usually don't do this. US citizens vote for their sheriffs and maybe many more jobs.

I also think, you shouldn't use voting machines. But I understood them better when I found out that their ballots are different from our ballots.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#186

Post by kaitai »

CocaKoala wrote: post #36
jniedrauer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We desperately need a national ID card. Social security was never designed for this purpose and it's terrible for it. Drivers license requires having access to a car and some way to learn how to use it.

You can get an ID card that works as legal id but isn't a driver's license, but it still requires going to the DMV and burning at LEAST several hours, which isn't an option available to everybody.

And it often costs money, and it's often a lot of hassle, and sometimes the employees charged with making it available give false information on what's required to get it.

Some stats on Wisconsin, which is supposed to provide a free voter ID: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/wisconsin-voters.html

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#187

Post by woodruffw »

fortomorrow wrote: post #134
_a3nw wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this had an actual impact on the election you would see one side push for changing the day as a strategy if they are more popular in the poorer populations than their opponent. Republicans would definitely want this more now considering Donald Trump's voter base was mostly lower income people. Same could be said for Barack Obama during 2014.

FYI. Trump won every income bracket above $50k, while Hillary only won those below https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/e...

Per that chart, Republicans in general tend to win every income bracket above $50k. Look at the gains and losses from 2012: Trump made massive gains with lower income brackets, and lost the Republican grip on the middle and upper middle classes.

So yes, it's reasonable to say that the cohort that Trump made the largest gains with (i.e., lower income brackets) is his "voter base."

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#189

Post by zdragnar »

bdamm wrote: post #145
zdragnar wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Registration for voting varies by the state you live in. In MN, you basically just need to walk in, have someone else who is already registered vouch for you, and you can register + vote on the spot. Every attempt to firm up voter registration roles (such as proving identity, eligibility, etc) is met with cries of racism.

That's because schemes such as bringing a driver's license are racist when you look at mobility and accessibility to government services. Back in my home country (Canada), voter eligibility was done by bringing evidence of residence in the district, which is roughly the same hurdle as getting a library card. I don't see why it ought to be any harder than that.

Notice that I didn't mention a driver's license. Also, I find the argument a bit hard to believe, since the same form of ID are required for cigarettes and alcohol, which nobody complains about being racist. Finally, rural areas with difficult access to government centers are typically more white and tend to vote more Republican anyway; the disparate impact of accessibility argument is a bit disingenuous.

Re: Voting Machine Used in Half of U.S. Is Vulnerable to Attack, Report Finds

#190

Post by avar »

wtallis wrote: post #172
avar wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E.g. in Iceland you can vote with a driver's license, a passport or a national ID. Those cost, respectively, $45, $110 and $40. Although I see now the first national ID you get issued in your life is free, but if you ever lose it you pay the fee to renew it. It's the same sort of thing in most European countries, you need to prove who you are, and usually doing that costs some one-off nominal fee. Voting is always go…

> I'm curious about how this works in practice. If you're a tourist visiting the US during a vote can you just show up to a voting polling station and cast a vote? If you don't have to show your ID what happens from the time you walk up to a polling station until you cast your vote and walk out again? In most states, you must be registered to vote before election day. In those states, non-citizens who attempt to vote…

> In most states, you must be registered to vote before election day.

Okey, so there's a list of people eligible to vote at a given polling station, but how do you you get on that list?

If there's no mandate to show ID do you just show up for registration and say your name is John Smith living at such-and-such St? The federal census is every 10 years so that claim can't be checked against that. Do local governments maintain their own name/address databases?

Are they ever going to say "we don't believe that you live here". What do you do then? Show up with a utility bill with your name on it?

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