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A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

theatlantic.com

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Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#41
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Churchill was a notorious scoundrel The topic of churchill was the first time I realized I lived in a bubble. In the US, we laud churchill as a great statesman and take pride in that he's half-american by his american mother. He's seen as, next to FDR, the most important man in the fight against nazi germany to free europe. And naively we assume the rest of the world also loves churchill. Turns out much of the worl…

As a Brit, through history classes and exams, I didn't learn anything other than how brilliant Churchill was. Then in my 20's the internet appeared and Churchill's real history was there in black and white. All it did was make me question everything I'd been taught about Britain and the establishment. Questioning everything from then on, only lead to the concrete conclusion that the British education system and estab…

the British education system and establishment (aristocracy, business, corporation of London, parliament, the lord's, judiciary, the class system) was designed/evolved to keep them rich and holders of power ad infinitum.

Noted by John Stuart Mill in the 1870s, as reported by Han Jensen:

the members of the university "hierarchy" made it their "business, the business for which they ... [were] paid," to "uphold certain political as well as religious opinions," namely those of the "ruling powers of the state" (J.S. Mill, Autobiography and Literary Essays, p. 429 (1981), J.S. Mill, Journals and Debating Speeches, p. 350. (1988) ). Thus the universities pursued with vigor their assignment to inculcate in their students those political and ideological views that were cherished by the power elite. The graduates of the ancient universities were, therefore, well prepared for employment in, and by, those institutions that were instrumental in perpetuating the existing maldistribution of income.

Hans E. Jensen, "John Stuart Mill's Theories of Wealth and Income Distribution". Review of Social Economy. Pages 491-507. Published online: 05 Nov 2010.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00346760110081599

Exerpts and commentary: https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/6x7u6a/on_the_...

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#42
post #11

Churchill was a notorious scoundrel, constantly in debt and bailed out by unsavoury characters https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/no-more-champ... '...On his first day at school, Winston Churchill asked his mother for more cash. She groused: “You do get through it in the most rapid manner… and the more you have the more you want to spend.” He was 13, and already he was spending more than a family “of six…

> Churchill was a notorious scoundrel The topic of churchill was the first time I realized I lived in a bubble. In the US, we laud churchill as a great statesman and take pride in that he's half-american by his american mother. He's seen as, next to FDR, the most important man in the fight against nazi germany to free europe. And naively we assume the rest of the world also loves churchill. Turns out much of the worl…

You will get plenty of downvotes here for mentioning such a topic, I know I've had myself in the past.

Churchill is a fair representation of one of the most, if not the most, depraved, vicious, ignorant, racist and violent people in the world, the island of inbreds AKA Britain.

I'm chilling myself a big bottle of sparkling wine waiting for March 29th next year. They had it coming.

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#43

Churchill was a notorious scoundrel, constantly in debt and bailed out by unsavoury characters https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/no-more-champ... '...On his first day at school, Winston Churchill asked his mother for more cash. She groused: “You do get through it in the most rapid manner… and the more you have the more you want to spend.” He was 13, and already he was spending more than a family “of six…

I thought his mum was the one that squandered his inheritance

[deleted]

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#44
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Churchill was a notorious scoundrel The topic of churchill was the first time I realized I lived in a bubble. In the US, we laud churchill as a great statesman and take pride in that he's half-american by his american mother. He's seen as, next to FDR, the most important man in the fight against nazi germany to free europe. And naively we assume the rest of the world also loves churchill. Turns out much of the worl…

Wait, why is this comment being down-voted? It's written in a respectful manner, cites a strong source, and is very much relevant to the link posted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18089829

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18087888

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#45
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Churchill was a notorious scoundrel The topic of churchill was the first time I realized I lived in a bubble. In the US, we laud churchill as a great statesman and take pride in that he's half-american by his american mother. He's seen as, next to FDR, the most important man in the fight against nazi germany to free europe. And naively we assume the rest of the world also loves churchill. Turns out much of the worl…

You will get plenty of downvotes here for mentioning such a topic, I know I've had myself in the past. Churchill is a fair representation of one of the most, if not the most, depraved, vicious, ignorant, racist and violent people in the world, the island of inbreds AKA Britain. I'm chilling myself a big bottle of sparkling wine waiting for March 29th next year. They had it coming.

We've banned this account for trolling, and will ban your main account as well if you do it again.

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#46
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Churchill was a notorious scoundrel The topic of churchill was the first time I realized I lived in a bubble. In the US, we laud churchill as a great statesman and take pride in that he's half-american by his american mother. He's seen as, next to FDR, the most important man in the fight against nazi germany to free europe. And naively we assume the rest of the world also loves churchill. Turns out much of the worl…

1943 - the British were in engaged in a multifront war against Germany, Italy, and Japan with their very survival in doubt. Then, Japan cut off a major food supply to Bengal. Blaming this all on Churchill is a bit much.

Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't there more then enough food, he just wanted to send it over to England?

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real thing that put Hitler in power to begin with was the horrendous war reparations Germany was saddled with from WW1 because it was "last man standing" on the losing side I'm not sure why this is socially unacceptable - I thought it was widely accepted that Hitler rode the economic woes into office, and used them to blame the Jews (amongst others). Now, if you start using that to justify what the Nazi party d…

My mother is German. She once said to me something like "Hitler was doing good things for the country -- until he went nuts." I brought that up on a forum. It isn't justification for Nazi atrocities. It is insight into how the people on the ground suffering hardship saw him in his early years. He was perceived to be a good leader doing good things for the people, at least at first. But, hey, my previous comment is al…

There is a massive difference between saying that the treatment of Germany after WWI set the stage for Hitler, and saying that Hitler did good things for Germany until he went nuts. The former will find wide agreement, while the latter is just apology for Nazis, who were evil from the start, and just took a while to really ramp it up.

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#48
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Churchill was a notorious scoundrel The topic of churchill was the first time I realized I lived in a bubble. In the US, we laud churchill as a great statesman and take pride in that he's half-american by his american mother. He's seen as, next to FDR, the most important man in the fight against nazi germany to free europe. And naively we assume the rest of the world also loves churchill. Turns out much of the worl…

Something that's completely socially unacceptable to say: The real thing that put Hitler in power to begin with was the horrendous war reparations Germany was saddled with from WW1 because it was "last man standing" on the losing side. You get called a Nazi sympathizer and things like that for trying to provide that context, but to my mind that is the real reason they said "Never again" and instituted global protecti…

What do you mean horrendous war reparations? Germany remained independent, lost barely any territory and were allowed to delay paying war reparations. Germany's other allies were far worse of losing far more territory and descending into anarchy all the way up to the second world war.

Hitler got into power because of the great depression and the German populations attraction at the time to authoritarian nationalist political party's not because Germany's war reparations were so horrendous.

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#49
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother is German. She once said to me something like "Hitler was doing good things for the country -- until he went nuts." I brought that up on a forum. It isn't justification for Nazi atrocities. It is insight into how the people on the ground suffering hardship saw him in his early years. He was perceived to be a good leader doing good things for the people, at least at first. But, hey, my previous comment is al…

There is a massive difference between saying that the treatment of Germany after WWI set the stage for Hitler, and saying that Hitler did good things for Germany until he went nuts. The former will find wide agreement, while the latter is just apology for Nazis, who were evil from the start, and just took a while to really ramp it up.

No, it is not apology for Nazis.

FYI: My initial comment was well into the negatives for a time.

A lot of people simply cannot look objectively at anything related to WW2. They know how it ultimately turned out, so they basically ret-con it as "they were pure evil from the start."

The problem is such mental models foster convenient explanations and justifications, not solutions for making sure such things don't happen again.

Re: A Letter From Winston Churchill’s Disappointed Mother

#50
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many historical figures are like that. Both great & terrible. Ghandi, too, had his major flaws completely unbefitting his image.

Yep. In particular Gandhi promoted the caste system and disagreed with those who said it should be eliminated.

Gandhi promoted caste apartheid and actively went on a hunger strike to prevent 'lower castes'/'untouchables' from getting representation in Parliament. This event was whitewashed in our school books as Gandhi did it to prevent English from breaking Hindu unity as not anyone reduce Gandhi's bargaining power. Gandhi also suppressed India's linguistic diversity and promoted Indians to have only one language. Here again, he used the crutch of Britishers forcing English on Indians. He wanted to assimilate and absorb diverse religions of India into Hinduism too. More I learn about him, more I hate him.
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