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The reverse job applicant

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Re: The reverse job applicant

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know nothing of his situation and yet are willing to cast aspersions on his character. Before you go tarring a whole generation with the "entitled" label perhaps a little context from the generation that lacks humility might be in order. Friends of mine are in the same position as this guy. They recently graduated with good degrees from a decent university with no allusions that finding a job was going to be anyt…

Well, based on what I can see on the internet, it'd be a no-hire from me. His resume is pretty crappy: http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/ahorner.resume.pdf has nothing really concrete in terms of projects that he's worked on or code that he's written, libraries which he's used, just a bunch of HR waffle. He has one semi-completed project, http://www.andrewhorner.com/sds/ which might be enough to find him work as…

Could you elaborate a little about his misuse of OO and functions? I ask as a CS student whose code doesn't get read very often. I want to be able to spot this sort of thing but don't see much wrong with his method of enqueuing function calls.

However, two things do jump out at me as improvements:

    * Enqueue the function object and arguments rather than a lambda of the function (his version not actually being a "great hack as the comments claim"). Or perhaps use functools.partial().
    * CONFORM TO PEP8 FOR THE LOVE OF JOHN CLEESE

Re: The reverse job applicant

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The fact you feel entitled to anything is the source of much grief." IMHO the younger generation isn't nearly entitled enough, and it's going to result in a lot of violence within our lifetime.

what do you mean by violence? care to elaborate (and explain the correlation)?

The history taught in our schools is mostly a mix of propaganda and mythology, so there is nothing in our national identity that allows us to make sense of the 50 year decline that America is heading into. Consider that we now live in a society where:

- It's basically impossible for most intelligent, hard working people to make a decent living.

- Everyone is a criminal and is subject to arrest at any time.

- The world has changed enormously but there have been basically zero major legislative changes in the 25+ years I've been alive.

I think we're going to see a lot of frustration vented via everything from street violence to assassinations.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#263
post #127

If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. I would encourage you to correct this, as it is a mistake. I know it's tongue in cheek, but my god does the current generation not have any humility at all? This is going to ruin your world v…

If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. This is going to ruin your world view, so brace yourself So, this is ridiculously tongue-in-cheek, and the reply is over-the-top to the degree that I can imagine with no effort the same being…

My two cents would be that it's almost always somewhere in between the two extremes you describe.

Certainly having experience with OO in one language will be an advantage when it comes to picking up another OO language but yeah, you're not 100% there. I would posit that you're more than 50% there, though (with this particular example). Understanding the OO concept is more important than the syntax.

You know what I find onerous when I think about learning a new language? It's not so much picking up the new syntax because a lot of the time I find that I can do that pretty quickly (at least if the paradigm between old and new language is not too disparate). It's picking up the ecosystem around the language:

How do I deploy an application written in language X? How do I package code written in language X (e.g. Ruby gems, Python eggs or whatever)? Which unit testing frameworks do I learn? What IDEs or text editors are usually used with language X? Documentation conventions and related software (e.g. rdoc)? What community resources are valuable, trustworthy and stable? etc.

When I first started learning Ruby (along with Rails, some years ago now) my web development experience mostly consisted of LAMP and ASP.Net. Deploying Rails apps seemed like such a massive hassle compared to PHP. Part of this was that Ruby as a web dev language was much newer than PHP and was still settling in, parts of it really were a hassle. But I came to realise that a big reason for the difference was that the two communities were conceptually coming at the issue of deployment from very different perspectives and a lot of the differences I was seeing were no accident, and not so difficult to grok when you understand the motivation behind them.

A lot of non-programmers don't get that there is usually a fair amount of transferable knowledge when it comes to picking up a new language that utilises similar concepts to one you already know. But I can also understand that some (probably most) employers want their staff to "hit the ground running" and may be looking for people with a very specific skill set.

Putting myself in the position of an employer and knowing what I do, I'd rather hire Person A that's obviously enthusiastic about learning new stuff, who's maybe contributed to something open source that can be reviewed, and who surely has some background knowledge that they can build on but who may not necessarily have language X listed on their resume, over Person B who does have language X on his resume but that's all they've really got. It would be good if more recruitment firms and HR departments started to realise that having the right acronym/keyword listed on your resume doesn't actually mean much on its own.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#264
My experience with an unusual resume:

Fed up with the way that Monster forced candidates to break down their resumes into tiny text boxes (this was back in 2000), I wrote a narrative that could fit into those boxes. Eventually I strung it together properly and created a resume-sized PDF (see http://www.scribd.com/doc/39705569?secret_password=1jlyubhcy...).

Results? One guy hired me on the spot -- a marketing consultant who was working on his own. Since that one job, I've sent it out many, many times, and have received maybe 1 or 2 responses out of hundreds.

I think it's well-written, but I can see it rubbing people the wrong way because of its attitude and because it's not easily scannable like a regular resume.

That said, since I was looking for work in marketing and tech, I'm surprised more people weren't interested in following up.

* I am employed now, so this isn't a resume-spamming post. :)

Re: The reverse job applicant

#265
post #126

How did this get twice as many upvotes as patio11's extensive, detailed notes from the Business of Software conference? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1795896

No kidding. I submitted this post on a whim and my karma went from 30 this morning to 473 and is still rising.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, based on what I can see on the internet, it'd be a no-hire from me. His resume is pretty crappy: http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/ahorner.resume.pdf has nothing really concrete in terms of projects that he's worked on or code that he's written, libraries which he's used, just a bunch of HR waffle. He has one semi-completed project, http://www.andrewhorner.com/sds/ which might be enough to find him work as…

Could you elaborate a little about his misuse of OO and functions? I ask as a CS student whose code doesn't get read very often. I want to be able to spot this sort of thing but don't see much wrong with his method of enqueuing function calls. However, two things do jump out at me as improvements: * Enqueue the function object and arguments rather than a lambda of the function (his version not actually being a "great…

In __update_pos, he has a series of if statements which look at the image filename to work out how far it's supposed to move[1]. This is the canonical warning sign that you should be using classes. The worst part is that he has created Ball classes - they just don't do very much: http://code.google.com/p/pygaf/source/browse/trunk/ball_obje...

[1] Update: actually not - it's just working out the image rectangle. Which means that it's not updating 'pos' and that there's another 'update_pos' hiding somewhere non-obvious.

A much cleaner way is to have something like, say, a Ball or Bullet class which knows how far it's supposed to go. Ditto for all of the canvas.create_foo classes in the second half - you should have objects which set themselves up, have update, draw and think methods and so on, inheriting from a common class.

In terms of functions, you're pretty much on the money - there's a lot of function creation for very little gain in terms of readability or (at a guess) speed. You'd be better off either queuing dictionaries or strings as arguments for function generation, or else just using threads for your AI and having one method which handles all the drawing and updating within your environment.

In addition to this, there are lots of places (__update_pos in particular) where he should be using functions (or methods) and doesn't - anywhere where there's repetition and/or common functionality, in this case updating the position of an image, really should have a function. Doubly so within large function or method bodies, like __new_population in http://code.google.com/p/pygaf/source/browse/trunk/optimizat... - "if blahblah:" followed by a huge chunk of code is just crying out to be a function.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#267
post #171
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot explain how much you have hit the nail on the head. I graduated from college in May and have been having the exact experience you describe. My generation has been described as entitled. Quite frankly, I do feel as if I am owed something, and that society at large has failed to keep its end of the bargain. For my entire life, I was told that if I work hard in school, bust my ass to go to a good university and…

> For my entire life, I was told that if I work hard in school, bust my ass to go to a good university and graduate with quantitative degree, I should have no trouble finding work. At best, that means that you have a beef with folks who told you that. However, you might want to think about why you believed them. Also, consider that they were trying to get you to buy into something for their benefit.

Do you really think that those people were giving that advice for selfish reasons? I'm guessing that they had good intentions, and honestly believed what they were saying.

Re: The reverse job applicant

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate a little about his misuse of OO and functions? I ask as a CS student whose code doesn't get read very often. I want to be able to spot this sort of thing but don't see much wrong with his method of enqueuing function calls. However, two things do jump out at me as improvements: * Enqueue the function object and arguments rather than a lambda of the function (his version not actually being a "great…

In __update_pos, he has a series of if statements which look at the image filename to work out how far it's supposed to move[1]. This is the canonical warning sign that you should be using classes. The worst part is that he has created Ball classes - they just don't do very much: http://code.google.com/p/pygaf/source/browse/trunk/ball_obje... [1] Update: actually not - it's just working out the image rectangle. Which…

Half of the problem was that I was looking at the wrong function (update_pos() vs __update_pos()), so all I saw was one line of code...

Anyway, thanks for elaborating!

Re: The reverse job applicant

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good post, but society did kinda lie. From your mom to Mr. T to the President of the United States, the school-is-cool, just stay in school and you'll get a job meme has been pretty prevalent since I was a child, and I'm old.

You know what pisses me off. There's this continuous drumbeating that we need to produce more scientists and engineers. So I went and got a PhD in Physics. By the time I got my PhD, the American Physical Society announces that they estimate that 3% of my graduating class would get permanent jobs in their field. So, the physics PhD mill encourages a few thousand of our brightest young people every year to spend 5-9 ye…

> By the time I got my PhD, the American Physical Society announces that they estimate that 3% of my graduating class would get permanent jobs in their field.

What was that percentage at the time you started your PhD?

Re: The reverse job applicant

#270

If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. I would encourage you to correct this, as it is a mistake. I know it's tongue in cheek, but my god does the current generation not have any humility at all? This is going to ruin your world v…

> A job that offers many travel opportunities stands a stronger chance of winning me over. Anyone that loves job traveling, is either an idiot, or have never done job traveling... I smell a lot of non sense from this application...

I loved the travel aspect of my job when I was in my 20's. I did nothing but work on the weekdays and nothing but play on the weekends (in almost any city in the country.)
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